Discussion Speculation: Zen 4 (EPYC 4 "Genoa", Ryzen 7000, etc.)

[Vattila]

Except for the details about the improvements in the microarchitecture, we now know pretty well what to expect with Zen 3.

The leaked presentation by AMD Senior Manager Martin Hilgeman shows that EPYC 3 "Milan" will, as promised and expected, reuse the current platform (SP3), and the system architecture and packaging looks to be the same, with the same 9-die chiplet design and the same maximum core and thread-count (no SMT-4, contrary to rumour). The biggest change revealed so far is the enlargement of the compute complex from 4 cores to 8 cores, all sharing a larger L3 cache ("32+ MB", likely to double to 64 MB, I think).

Hilgeman's slides did also show that EPYC 4 "Genoa" is in the definition phase (or was at the time of the presentation in September, at least), and will come with a new platform (SP5), with new memory support (likely DDR5).

What else do you think we will see with Zen 4? PCI-Express 5 support? Increased core-count? 4-way SMT? New packaging (interposer, 2.5D, 3D)? Integrated memory on package (HBM)?

Vote in the poll and share your thoughts!

 

[eek2121]

Any additional updates on Storm Peak? I am very curious for a new HEDT platform, especially one that excels in gaming as well as having the extra IO.

I am curious as well. I also want to know if it can maintain high memory frequencies (DDR5 6000 at least) and how well it can game.

AMD should really start slapping on a high frequency chiplet or two. Threadripper with 8-16 cores @ 5.5-5.8 ghz would be a beast.

 

[jpiniero]

AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 7000 "Storm Peak" with up to 96 Zen4 cores to launch on October 19 - VideoCardz.com

AMD Threadripper 7000 to launch 1.5 years after the 5000 series It is reported by Wccftech that AMD has now set the launch date for its new Threadripper series. According to previously leaked marketing materials, AMD is set to reveal their next-generation Threadripper series this fall. As it...

videocardz.com

Zen 4 TR Pro's launch is rumored to be October 19th.

 

[Markfw]

AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 7000 "Storm Peak" with up to 96 Zen4 cores to launch on October 19 - VideoCardz.com

AMD Threadripper 7000 to launch 1.5 years after the 5000 series It is reported by Wccftech that AMD has now set the launch date for its new Threadripper series. According to previously leaked marketing materials, AMD is set to reveal their next-generation Threadripper series this fall. As it...

videocardz.com

Zen 4 TR Pro's launch is rumored to be October 19th.

I am sure its on socket SP5, so I hope the aftermarket good coolers come out on that date too ! I need some !

 

[eek2121]

Ars Technica recently reviewed the Framework Laptop 13 Ryzen edition: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/202...gets-an-amd-ryzen-config-and-its-pretty-good/

While they aren’t a solid review site, it is worth having a look.

What I find intriguing is that it is now possible to directly compare an Intel and AMD laptop part while minimizing the differences between the two systems (same screen, possibly the wifi adapter*, ssd, etc.

Furthermore, Framework also sells a small case you can build the system in, instead.

This may potentially help reviewers review mobile offerings without worrying as much about poor cooling.

Framework is also working with AMD on removable/replaceable GPU offerings. This is also interesting because now you can upgrade your GPU or add a GPU to a system that has a socket, but is using the integrated one. Just like DIY. Unsure if/when it drops.

All we need from them now is a high refresh OLED screen.

Hopefully we see more from Framework soon.

 

[Markfw]

Its official. From Noctua technical support:

"Thank you very much for contacting us.
Unfortunately, we do not have any coolers for socket SP5 in our product range. Currently, there are also no plans for such coolers."

 

[igor_kavinski]

Its official.

Seen this? https://www.coolserver.com.cn/men/product_view_370_283.html

Supposed to be quiet.

 

[Markfw]

Seen this? https://www.coolserver.com.cn/men/product_view_370_283.html

Supposed to be quiet.

I have 2 of them. They don't cool 400 watts well.

 

[Abwx]

I have 2 of them. They don't cool 400 watts well.

Reduce the CPUs power to 300-320W, not much perf difference.

 

[Ajay]

Its official. From Noctua technical support:

"Thank you very much for contacting us.
Unfortunately, we do not have any coolers for socket SP5 in our product range. Currently, there are also no plans for such coolers."

SilverStone Intros XE360-SP5 AIO Liquid CPU Coolers for AMD Socket SP5

SilverStone introduced the XE360-SP5, an all-in-one liquid CPU cooler for AMD Socket SP5, making it fit for servers and workstations based on the EPYC "Genoa" and "Genoa-X" processors, and its upcoming Ryzen Threadripper HEDT processors, assuming AMD sticks to this socket infrastructure. The...

www.techpowerup.com

worth checking out.

 

[StefanR5R]

Its official. From Noctua technical support:

"Thank you very much for contacting us.
Unfortunately, we do not have any coolers for socket SP5 in our product range. Currently, there are also no plans for such coolers."

They still have their May 2023 version of their product roadmap up, which lists "Next-gen AMD Threadripper coolers" for Q3 2023. Q3 is over now, but on the other hand, Noctua's ETAs for new products have always been reliable only in one aspect: That items on their roadmaps are somewhat prone to be pushed out further into the future, if they don't disappear altogether. :-|.

As for SP5 (compatible) coolers not being in Noctua's current (official) plans: Well, they haven't listed any in their roadmap, so this way we already knew as much. However, IMO this statement of theirs at this point in time does not disprove a possibility that Threadripper 7000's socket could be physically compatible with SP5. (In which case, Noctua's official plans about SP5 coolers might suddenly change after Threadripper 7000 related NDAs expire.)

But other possibilities are of course that the Threadripper socket might indeed not be physically compatible with SP5, or/and that there might not be a Threadripper 7000 cooler released by Noctua after all.

https://www.techpowerup.com/314384/...sp5-aio-liquid-cpu-coolers-for-amd-socket-sp5

worth checking out.

A slim 360x120 radiator (-> small) + three 88 cfm = 150 m³/h fans (-> loud)? Not ideal for workstations. But at least an alternative to the current even tinier ≤4U coolers.

 

[Ajay]

A slim 360x120 radiator (-> small) + three 88 cfm = 150 m³/h fans (-> loud)? Not ideal for workstations. But at least an alternative to the current even tinier ≤4U coolers.

For Mark, not necessarily someone sitting in a relatively quiet cube at work.

 

[Markfw]

For Mark, not necessarily someone sitting in a relatively quiet cube at work.

Yes, I think all my Genoa are in cases that will easily take a 360 rad, and I am sure ALL AIO will be quieter than either of my current HSF's The one that cooler better and looks something like the Noctua SP3 cooler has fans that have a problem with the mounting, and I have to wire tie them not to make a horrible click where the fans hit the HSF. Cheap crap is what they are. The other ones that were suggested here, don't cool well at all, and even with my deafness I can hear them !

I can't find anywhere to buy them right now though.

 

[Markfw]

Its official. From Noctua technical support:

"Thank you very much for contacting us.
Unfortunately, we do not have any coolers for socket SP5 in our product range. Currently, there are also no plans for such coolers."

New reply from Noctua. Pretty sure this guy is clueless, as I am almost sure the 96 core threadripper will be on socket SP5, the same as Genoa.

"There will be coolers for the soon to be launched next Threadripper generation, but none for SP5."

 

[StefanR5R]

The Threadripper history had its unexpected twists and turns in the past. I think specifics such as cooler compatibility will remain a mystery until AMD's release of the new platform.

 

[Markfw]

The Threadripper history had its unexpected twists and turns in the past. I think specifics such as cooler compatibility will remain a mystery until AMD's release of the new platform.

except, since its inception, threadripper has always used the same socket as EPYC. Also, 96 cores ? It has to be the same as the 9654, just binned for more speed.

 

[eek2121]

I am hoping that at least a few reviewers test Zen 4 Threadrippers with gaming workloads. I might ping Gamers Nexus and see if they have any plans. The market demand for workstations that can game is pretty small, sure, but it does exist! 🤣

If the 96C chips really are hitting 5.1-5.2ghz, it will be interesting to see if they are actually any slower than a 7950X…provided you can lock the game to a single CCD.

I don’t think I have ever seen my chip run a game above 5.3-5.5ghz. Usually gaming workloads are closer to 5-5.3ghz (and lower), and the effective clocks reported by HWInfo are even lower.

Threadripper chips have more power and more thermal headroom, so they should be able to stay closer to peak clocks.

 

[eek2121]

More Zen 4 Threadripper news leaking out. 5.1ghz max boost for the 96 core chip and 5.35ghz for the rest of the stack.

AMD Threadripper PRO 7000WX specs leaked: up to 96 Zen4 cores, 5.35 GHz clocks, 350W TDP and DDR5-5200 support - VideoCardz.com

AMD Storm Peak: six models up to 96 Zen4 cores and 5.35GHz clocks Wccftech previously disclosed the release date for the Threadripper PRO 7000WX series now asserts to have the full specifications. Surprisingly, there are no major surprises, except for the introduction of a new SKU. The flagship...

videocardz.com

The 32 and 64 core parts look pretty impressive.

 

[igor_kavinski]

TR line is dead to me, unless they give me 24-core TR with quad channel DDR5 and future 5-year TR upgrade path for $2000.

 

[Tigerick]

You could wait for Zen 7 with DDR6 support; we might finally get the core count upgrade

TR line is dead to me, unless they give me 24-core TR with quad channel DDR5 and future 5-year TR upgrade path for $2000.

 

[Thunder 57]

TR line is dead to me, unless they give me 24-core TR with quad channel DDR5 and future 5-year TR upgrade path for $2000.

You must be joking? AM4 didn't even get five years. And AFAIK that was the longest lived platform ever. Why not just ask AMD to sell everything at cost for good measure?

 

[igor_kavinski]

Why not just ask AMD to sell everything at cost for good measure?

They will make nice profits on that coz it will be bought by a lot of people who don't really need it. They don't need to do extra workstation validation for it. Just a TR platform for gamers and MT enthusiasts.

 

[Thunder 57]

They will make nice profits on that coz it will be bought by a lot of people who don't really need it. They don't need to do extra workstation validation for it. Just a TR platform for gamers and MT enthusiasts.

Purely gaming is a terrible use case for TR. It is a workstation CPU that can also game well. I also doubt "it would be bought by a lot of people who don't really need it". Just because you want it on the cheap doesn't mean AMD is that stupid. You also failed to address the fact that no socket has lasted five years.

 

[igor_kavinski]

You also failed to address the fact that no socket has lasted five years.

AM4 has lasted way more than that. Still selling.



No.2, 3 and 5.

AMD created the Windows XP of sockets.

 

[Thunder 57]

AM4 has lasted way more than that. Still selling.

View attachment 86962

No.2, 3 and 5.

AMD created the Windows XP of sockets.

I'll clarify. I mean from the introduction of the socket until the last generation launched on that socket. AM4 supposedly launched in late 2016, but I don't think it was really around or at least not relevant until early 2017 when Zen launched. Zen 3 launched in late 2020. That's four years tops. It remains a great platform no doubt, but it hasn't had five years of new CPU's.

 

[igor_kavinski]

That's four years tops. It remains a great platform no doubt, but it hasn't had five years of new CPU's.

Architecturally no but the 5600X3D was released in limited quantities just this year. Who knows what other scrap dies AMD may decide to unload on AM4 in future. At any rate, if AMD wants to, AMD can. They just need to open their minds more and stop chasing the dollar like a mad canine. Get back to their roots and serve the enthusiasts.