Question Raptor Lake - Official Thread

Hulk · Dec 5, 2021

Since we already have the first Raptor Lake leak I'm thinking it should have it's own thread.
What do we know so far?
From Anandtech's Intel Process Roadmap articles from July:

Built on Intel 7 with upgraded FinFET
10-15% PPW (performance-per-watt)
Last non-tiled consumer CPU as Meteor Lake will be tiled

I'm guessing this will be a minor update to ADL with just a few microarchitecture changes to the cores. The larger change will be the new process refinement allowing 8+16 at the top of the stack.

Will it work with current z690 motherboards? If yes then that could be a major selling point for people to move to ADL rather than wait.

tamz_msc · Sep 3, 2022

MarkPost said:
How is that posible if a 13700K (the same core count that 12900K) already consume more power than the aforementioned 12900K?

13700K Intel Core i7-13700K & i5-13600K Tests Reveal Performance Figures

My 12900K, all stock

So a few watts 13900K vs 12900K? yeah sure

Exist50 said "power limits are a few watts higher than 12900K". And he's right - the 13900K's PL2 is rumored to be 250W against the 12900K's 241W.

Also, is it that difficult to imagine the 13700K, with higher clocks than the 12900K, consuming more in the FPU test?

Exist50 · Sep 3, 2022

MarkPost said:
How is that posible if a 13700K (the same core count that 12900K) already consume more power than the aforementioned 12900K?

If they set the PL2 to be the same, they'll both happily boost up to that amount of power draw. The 13700k will simply have higher clocks, but on fewer cores.

Just Benching · Sep 3, 2022

Asterox said:
No it won't, CPU power consumption=or performanse per watt Zen 4 is much beeter.

Red is more important today than ever, given the global situation and the rise in electricity prices.The crisis is big, and let's hope that there won't be any much bigger problems.

Alder Lake=Raptor Lake, if you set same TDP as Zen 4 that would be very bad in any CPU benchmark.

View attachment 67013

What benchmark is that from? AFAIK alderlaker = zen 3 in efficiency at same wattage, at least in CBR23.

Asterox · Sep 3, 2022

Just Benching said:
What benchmark is that from? AFAIK alderlaker = zen 3 in efficiency at same wattage, at least in CBR23.

Cinebench R20 Multithread, green for Ryzen 7 and Ryzen 9 is Eco mode settings.

Ryzen 5 yellow is stock, or Ryzen 7 and Ryzen 9 yellow is default.

Alder Lake in blue 125W, well that is stock settings.

So you see, even R9 5900X has beeter score in Eco model vs stock 125W i9 12900K.

Just Benching · Sep 3, 2022

Asterox said:
Cinebench R20 Multithread, Green for R7 and R9 is Eco mode settings.

Ryzen 5 yellow is stock, or Ryzen 7 and Ryzen 9 yellow is default.

Alder Lake in Blue 125W, well that is stock settings.

So you see, R9 5900X has beeter score in Eco model vs stock 125W i9 12900K.

View attachment 67070

I've no idea about R20, there is a reason it's not used anymore on high end CPUs. In R23 the 12900k at 125w heavily outscores the 5900x and like 5% behind the 5950x.

Of course thats in heavy MT workloads, in other tasks - basically 99.9% of other productivity and gaming alderlake absolutely nails zen 3 in both performance and efficiency (autocad / premiere / photoshop etc.).

Abwx · Sep 3, 2022

Just Benching said:
I've no idea about R20, there is a reason it's not used anymore on high end CPUs. In R23 the 12900k at 125w heavily outscores the 5900x and like 5% behind the 5950x.

At 125W A 12900K barely match a stock 5900X or a 5950X@88W, even in Cinebench.

Intel Core i9-12900K, i7-12700K & i5-12600K im Test: Leistung und Effizienz P- vs. E-Core

Intel Alder Lake im Test: Leistung und Effizienz P- vs. E-Core / Wie effizient ist die Hybrid-Architektur?

www.computerbase.de

Just Benching · Sep 3, 2022

Abwx said:
At 125W A 12900K barely match a stock 5900X or a 5950X@88W, even in Cinebench.

Intel Core i9-12900K, i7-12700K & i5-12600K im Test: Leistung und Effizienz P- vs. E-Core

Intel Alder Lake im Test: Leistung und Effizienz P- vs. E-Core / Wie effizient ist die Hybrid-Architektur?

www.computerbase.de

Uhm, yeah sure buddy

https://www.club386.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/07-1.png

I know for a fact that 12900k gets 24 to 24.5k in cbr23 at 125w. That puts it ahead of the 5900x. Period

dark zero · Sep 3, 2022

Seems that Intel and AMD can pull nice scores but using more energy. That's not bodes well.

MarkPost · Sep 3, 2022

my 12900KF and my 5950X

5950X +17% faster @125W

Just Benching · Sep 3, 2022

MarkPost said:
my 12900KF and my 5950X

5950X +17% faster @125W

Power reporting is wrong on both. You can tell by the power reporting deviation. The 12900k should score 24-24.5k in high priority, the 5950x around 25-26k, heavily dependant on your batch since the latest ones on the market are pretty terribly binned. Either way, the 5900x does not beat the 12900k as evident even by your somewhat flawed numbers.

Abwx · Sep 3, 2022

Just Benching said:
Uhm, yeah sure buddy

https://www.club386.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/07-1.png

I know for a fact that 12900k gets 24 to 24.5k in cbr23 at 125w. That puts it ahead of the 5900x. Period

This link is BS, for one the 5950X does 26196 pts at stock while your link say 24643, the 5900X is not listed but does 22046 pts

The 12900K@125W score is not heavily outperforming the 5900X, according to Computerbase the difference is about 10%..

Intel Core i9-12900K, i7-12700K & i5-12600K im Test: Benchmarks in Anwendungen

Intel Alder Lake im Test: Benchmarks in Anwendungen / Ein rekordverdächtiger Testumfang / Windows 10 vs. Windows 11

www.computerbase.de

Intel Core i9-12900K, i7-12700K & i5-12600K im Test: Leistung und Effizienz P- vs. E-Core

Intel Alder Lake im Test: Leistung und Effizienz P- vs. E-Core / Wie effizient ist die Hybrid-Architektur?

www.computerbase.de

MarkPost · Sep 3, 2022

Just Benching said:
Power reporting is wrong on both. You can tell by the power reporting deviation. The 12900k should score 24-24.5k in high priority, the 5950x around 25-26k, heavily dependant on your batch since the latest ones on the market are pretty terribly binned. Either way, the 5900x does not beat the 12900k as evident even by your somewhat flawed numbers.

yeah or whatever

Just Benching · Sep 3, 2022

Abwx said:
This link is BS, for one the 5950X does 26196 pts at stock while your link say 24643, the 5900X is not listed but does 22046 pts

The 12900K@125W score is not heavily outperforming the 5900X, according to Computerbase the difference is 12.5%.

The score of the 5950x is determined by...bins. The latest bins are spectacularly bad and generally don't score well above 25k. With that said both the numbers for the 5950x and the 12900k are low cause he didn't use high priority.

I don't know why you keep insisting, the 5900x does not beat the 12900k at 125w. It just doesn't

Abwx · Sep 3, 2022

Just Benching said:
The score of the 5950x is determined by...bins. The latest bins are spectacularly bad and generally don't score well above 25k. With that said both the numbers for the 5950x and the 12900k are low cause he didn't use high priority.

I don't know why you keep insisting, the 5900x does not beat the 12900k at 125w. It just doesn't

So best bin for the 12900K and the worst for the 5950X.?..
All other AMD scores on your link are lower than Computerbase s, seems that your source has found a way to select all worst binned AMD s SKUs, but not so much for Intel, almost all are better than at Computerbase..

As said the 5900X does 22056 pts, while you said that is s heavily outmatched by the 12900K@125W, now you just say that the 12900K@125W fares better.

Notice that nowhere i did say that the 5900X was faster but that the difference is not big and certainly not heavy.

Just Benching · Sep 3, 2022

Abwx said:
So best bin for te 12900K and the worst for the 5950X.?..

As said the 5900X does 22056 pts, while you said that is s heavily outmatched by the 12900K, now you just say that the 12900K@125W fares bette

Notice that nowhere i did say that the 5900X was faster but that the difference is not big and certainly not heavy.

There is no best bin for the 12900k, they all have the same VF curve. Intel cpus are quite different to amd ones, they don't have boosting algorithms.

In your previous post you said it barely matches a 5900x. That means it is losing, no?

Well the difference isn't heavy to the 5950x either, if you take the best figures for both (26k vs 24.5k) it's 6%, while the difference between a 5900x and the 12900k is 11+%

Abwx · Sep 3, 2022

Just Benching said:
In your previous post you said it barely matches a 5900x. That means it is losing, no?

Yes, Cinebench is a best case scenario for ADL, in the average of all multi core tests the 5900X is 1% faster than a 12900K@125W and the 5950X is 22% faster while it use only 5-7W more.

Intel Core i9-12900K, i7-12700K & i5-12600K im Test: Leistung und Effizienz P- vs. E-Core

Intel Alder Lake im Test: Leistung und Effizienz P- vs. E-Core / Wie effizient ist die Hybrid-Architektur?

www.computerbase.de

Just Benching · Sep 3, 2022

Abwx said:
Yes, Cinebench is a best case scenario for ADL, in the average of all multi core tests the 5900X is 1% faster than a 12900K@125W and the 5950X is 22% faster while it use only 5-7W more.

Edit : At 88W the 5950X is still 1% faster than the 12900K@125W.

Intel Core i9-12900K, i7-12700K & i5-12600K im Test: Leistung und Effizienz P- vs. E-Core

Intel Alder Lake im Test: Leistung und Effizienz P- vs. E-Core / Wie effizient ist die Hybrid-Architektur?

www.computerbase.de

I don't what they are testing, but igorslab has a whole suite of productivity applications and alderlake absolutely wipes the floor with zen 3 in both performance and efficiency. Stuff like premiere autocad photoshop matlab etc, they make zen 3 look like a 5 year old CPU or something.

Abwx · Sep 3, 2022

Just Benching said:
I don't what they are testing, but igorslab has a whole suite of productivity applications and alderlake absolutely wipes the floor with zen 3 in both performance and efficiency. Stuff like premiere autocad photoshop matlab etc, they make zen 3 look like a 5 year old CPU or something.

I dont think that Igor s lab is up to Computerbase, just seeing his scores cast a bid doubt on his methodology.
You can see the full review of ADL below, you wont find such an in depth analysis elsewhere, and certainly not at Igor s lab, most likely that he s following some agenda more than everything else.

Intel Core i9-12900K, i7-12700K & i5-12600K im Test

Intel Core i9-12900K, i7-12700K und i5-12600K sind da. Die Alder-Lake-CPUs in der ausführlichen Test-Analyse und im Vergleich zu Ryzen 5000.

www.computerbase.de

Just Benching · Sep 3, 2022

Abwx said:
I dont think that Igor s lab is up to Computerbase, just seeing his scores cast a bid doubt on his methodology.
You can see the full review of ADL below, you wont find such an in depth analysis elsewhere, and certainly not at Igor s lab, most likely that he s following some agenda more than everything else.

Intel Core i9-12900K, i7-12700K & i5-12600K im Test

Intel Core i9-12900K, i7-12700K und i5-12600K sind da. Die Alder-Lake-CPUs in der ausführlichen Test-Analyse und im Vergleich zu Ryzen 5000.

www.computerbase.de

Sure, lets cherrypick numbers and reviews to match our conclusion.

Does phoronix also have an agenda?

Out of 146 performance benchmarks ran across all of these tested AMD and Intel processors on Ubuntu 21.10, the Core i9 12900K successfully led in 54% (78) of these benchmarks while the Ryzen 9 5950X was in first place for 30% (44) of the benchmarks.

Intel Core i5 12600K / Core i9 12900K "Alder Lake" Linux Performance - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

Abwx · Sep 3, 2022

Just Benching said:
Sure, lets cherrypick numbers and reviews to match our conclusion.

Does phoronix also have an agenda?

Out of 146 performance benchmarks ran across all of these tested AMD and Intel processors on Ubuntu 21.10, the Core i9 12900K successfully led in 54% (78) of these benchmarks while the Ryzen 9 5950X was in first place for 30% (44) of the benchmarks.

Intel Core i5 12600K / Core i9 12900K "Alder Lake" Linux Performance - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

Because their average include both lightly and highly threaded tests (Computerbase separate single thread and multithread average FI), and here i see a meager 3% advantage at the cost of 67% more TDP according to Larabel.

That being said what about in one or two years with linux softwares being improved for multicore scaling..?.

Just Benching · Sep 3, 2022

Abwx said:
Because their average include both lightly and highly threaded tests (Computerbase separate single thread and multithread average FI), and here i see a meager 3% advantage at the cost of 67% more TDP according to Larabel.

That being said what about in one or two years with linux softwares being improved for multicore scaling..?.

So what? You don't care about efficiency in lightly threaded stuff like premiere photoshop autocad matlab etc??

inf64 · Sep 3, 2022

Yeah, Phoronix certainly confirmed that AL "make zen 3 look like a 5 year old CPU or something"

"When taking the geometric mean of all 146 benchmarks, the Core i9 12900K came out to being 3% faster than the Ryzen 9 5950X across that entire range of CPU/system benchmarks carried out. "

Such amazing delta! Where I come from it's called margin of error and not being infinitely slower like a 5 year old CPU.

Oh and another thing:
"For multi-threaded workloads is where Alder Lake isn't compelling at all with its power consumption... We recorded the Core i9 12900K hitting a power consumption as high as 258.57 Watts during testing. The Core i5 12600K saw a peak CPU power consumption of 125.57 Watts. Throughout the same set of benchmarks, the Ryzen 9 5950X had a peak power consumption of 154 Watts. "

So 3% faster on average for such a huge disparity in power draw.

Abwx · Sep 3, 2022

Just Benching said:
So what? You don't care about efficiency in lightly threaded stuff like premiere photoshop autocad matlab etc??

No one said that it doesnt count but it s generaly in MT that computing will use a lot of time and power usage, if all your concern is single or a few threads then you dont need more than a 8C CPU.

Just Benching · Sep 3, 2022

inf64 said:
Yeah, Phoronix certainly confirmed that AL "make zen 3 look like a 5 year old CPU or something"

"When taking the geometric mean of all 146 benchmarks, the Core i9 12900K came out to being 3% faster than the Ryzen 9 5950X across that entire range of CPU/system benchmarks carried out. "

Such amazing delta! Where I come from it's called margin of error and not being infinitely slower like a 5 year old CPU.

Oh and another thing:
"For multi-threaded workloads is where Alder Lake isn't compelling at all with its power consumption... We recorded the Core i9 12900K hitting a power consumption as high as 258.57 Watts during testing. The Core i5 12600K saw a peak CPU power consumption of 125.57 Watts. Throughout the same set of benchmarks, the Ryzen 9 5950X had a peak power consumption of 154 Watts. "

So 3% faster on average for such a huge disparity in power draw.

I was talking about lightly threaded productivity apps like premiere photoshop autocad etc. in which yes, zen 3 looks hard outdated.

Regarding phoronix, you realize that it's not 3% faster while consuming 258 watts right? That's the peak wattage. There is a graph somewehere where it shows that the 12900k consumed the least amount of power by the end of the full 146 benchmark run. So it was both the fastest and it consumed the least

inf64 · Sep 3, 2022

It's no surprise Alder Lake wins in short bursty workloads, it has ~11% higher (avg) IPC and ~6% higher boost clock. But if you are doing anything that will stress the full chip the power goes through the roof to achieve a slightly better (overall) score vs a chip from 2020. So whoever needs application specific performance they will choose AL over Zen 3, or vice versa depending on the workload. But performance efficiency is not a stronghold of AL if you are utilizing all the threads and are not doing extreme tweaking (undervolting).

Question Raptor Lake - Official Thread

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