It's okay! I am too because of how delighted my power company is to ream my behind with high peak hours during the summer. I'm going with Zen 4 simply because replacing several Intel systems over time works out to be cheaper if they deadhead at 250 or whatever watts vs what Intel does on their 13900ks. An extra 300-600 watts an hour can be a matter of an extra 200-300 on my bill.Ah fair, I'm one of those pesky power (mostly sound) conscious desktop users though.
The current woes over energy bills may cause some formerly unbothered desktop/enthusiast users to rethink power in their considerations too.
this video is a complete waste of time
he pulled the 15-26% IPC and 2-9% clock increase out of his behind
thats like saying ST performance is 17-37% higher. No shit, Sherlock!
"my sources say" ... yeah, sure, whatever.
Yes, that is a possibility. It's not uncommon for different market segments to use different manufacturing nodes depending on their specific requirements and priorities. It could be that AMD decides to reserve their most advanced node for the markets where performance, power efficiency, and density are the most critical factors, and use a more cost-effective node for markets that are more focused on price-performance. This approach would allow AMD to balance their production costs with the demands of different markets, and deliver the best possible performance for each market segment.
Their cadence was less than 18 months at one point. Covid threw them off. But why would anyone from AMD talk to mlid? How he got Peddie to come on for an interview puzzles me months later.
Are we one day going to learn mlid was a psyops hire by AMD or Intel? I try to step away from cpu rumor talk every year and have tried to since the p1 days but every time weird discussions like this pull me back in.
I'm around most days commenting every so often, usually when something big crops up for AMD or ARM announcements or rumors.Oh soresu! I haven't seen you in ages on here.
18 months is about what I came up with the other day in a reply to our resident AMD phile @DrMrLordX. But referring back to something I remember showing him around the time of Zen 3's launch is that one of the higher ups from AMD stated they will have a variable cadence with 18 months being the extreme. This was pre covid that interview. As you pointed out covid did wreck AMD's plans on getting Zen 4 out earlier than their original intention. I believe if covid were not a factor they would have had more time to attempt selling zen 4 before Raptor came along. Intel's releases are often set in stone within a quarter year after year. Zen 4 was on a 22 or 23 month cadence from Zen 3.Yeah, Zen4 slipped because of Covid, but, if Zen 5 is targeted for Q1 - Q2 2024, it will be Zen 4 + 18 month timing, which is I think what AMD wants.
Also, CDNA2 to CDNA3 is going to be taking much longer, but it is a major change in platform. Hopefully, after Mi300, the cadence will shrink again.
Re: Psyops
Just well timed leaks, I would say.
Covid didn't delay Zen 4. It was delayed on purpose for CXL. (from Forrest Norrod)18 months is about what I came up with the other day in a reply to our resident AMD phile @DrMrLordX. But referring back to something I remember showing him around the time of Zen 3's launch is that one of the higher ups from AMD stated they will have a variable cadence with 18 months being the extreme. This was pre covid that interview. As you pointed out covid did wreck AMD's plans on getting Zen 4 out earlier than their original intention. I believe if covid were not a factor they would have had more time to attempt selling zen 4 before Raptor came along. Intel's releases are often set in stone within a quarter year after year. Zen 4 was on a 22 or 23 month cadence from Zen 3.
Oh yes that's right. I even read and posted that interview myself. The original plan was 4-5 months prior but Norrod wanted CXL. Very off topic but on Intel's side there is a lot of questioning to be done. Someone asked me about their interconnects the other day on here and I had no real answer. I've only read the white papers for DMI4.0 and QPI. Even as we praise or joke on Intel there's a lot of mystery revolving around them due to the engineering brain power glut they suffered not long ago under devilish hands.Covid didn't delay Zen 4. It was delayed on purpose for CXL. (from Forrest Norrod)
I think Zen 2 took a lot longer than they planned because of the Fab change and new chiplet design.
Usually, when we get a factual outcome that contradicts our beliefs, we should re-evaluate our base assumptions. Unfortunately too few do these days.Their cadence was less than 18 months at one point. Covid threw them off. But why would anyone from AMD talk to mlid? How he got Peddie to come on for an interview puzzles me months later.
Are we one day going to learn mlid was a psyops hire by AMD or Intel? I try to step away from cpu rumor talk every year and have tried to since the p1 days but every time weird discussions like this pull me back in.
It's okay! I am too because of how delighted my power company is to ream my behind with high peak hours during the summer. I'm going with Zen 4 simply because replacing several Intel systems over time works out to be cheaper if they deadhead at 250 or whatever watts vs what Intel does on their 13900ks. An extra 300-600 watts an hour can be a matter of an extra 200-300 on my bill.
What country do you live in, if you don’t mind?Summer? Try peak hours during winter here. You'll easily pay 2-3-4-5x per KWh then off-peak. Then add that transport is 3x more expensive during peak. That's before taxes and VAT.
They don't even use lube anymore.
What country do you live in, if you don’t mind?
Is it me or does it look like the Zen4c leaks show no real gain but just proportional clock/power scaling?
Might be the reason why Zen5c is rumored to be on N3 rather than N4 to show them being better...
Zen 1-4 cores share the same lineage - a traditional 4-wide + uop cache + SMT design. Sure, Zen 4 is way beefier than Skylake/Zen 1 but still.Zen4's has a 4-wide front-end so Zen5 expanding to 5-wide would fit the leak but that's still less than ADL/RPL 6-wide.
I do wonder if Zen5 will even get parity with Raptor Coves internal latency & bandwidth or remain the same. There's plenty of room left to address for Zen6. Then again too much IPC will starve the cores. Sooner or later on package DRAM or 3D v-cache become inevitable (for Zen6).
I hope Zen 5 changes a bit more. "repipelined" front end makes me think that it might not be as clear cut as just going wider, but that might just be hopium.Is it me or does it look like the Zen4c leaks show no real gain but just proportional clock/power scaling?
Might be the reason why Zen5c is rumored to be on N3 rather than N4 to show them being better...
Zen4's has a 4-wide front-end so Zen5 expanding to 5-wide would fit the leak but that's still less than ADL/RPL 6-wide.
I do wonder if Zen5 will even get parity with Raptor Coves internal latency & bandwidth or remain the same. There's plenty of room left to address for Zen6. Then again too much IPC will starve the cores. Sooner or later on package DRAM or 3D v-cache become inevitable (for Zen6).
I don't expect much of the 1st gen AI/ML accelerators but I do hope they will be good enough across generations and not become worthless after just 2 gens like the change to DLSS3.
Intel is releasing new "gens" faster while the actual iterating is bumpy as best. AMD caught up with that yearly cacedence with their mobile chips anyway where it actually manages to both iterate and launch on time (even if availability on the market leaves to desire).Intel seems to iterate faster than AMD
you're in europe, you're getting it either way. the lack of lube will cause friction heat and warm you up.Summer? Try peak hours during winter here. You'll easily pay 2-3-4-5x per KWh then off-peak. Then add that transport is 3x more expensive during peak. That's before taxes and VAT.
They don't even use lube anymore.
18 months is about what I came up with the other day in a reply to our resident AMD phile @DrMrLordX. But referring back to something I remember showing him around the time of Zen 3's launch is that one of the higher ups from AMD stated they will have a variable cadence with 18 months being the extreme. This was pre covid that interview. As you pointed out covid did wreck AMD's plans on getting Zen 4 out earlier than their original intention. I believe if covid were not a factor they would have had more time to attempt selling zen 4 before Raptor came along. Intel's releases are often set in stone within a quarter year after year. Zen 4 was on a 22 or 23 month cadence from Zen 3.
I will actually disagree, even with him. AMD was selling every chip they made up until this year.My suspicion is that they were making tons of money and did not want to roll out a new platform until they absolutely had to. If you are the market leader and are eating your competitor's lunch, you absolutely do NOT rock that boat until needed.Covid didn't delay Zen 4. It was delayed on purpose for CXL. (from Forrest Norrod)
I think Zen 2 took a lot longer than they planned because of the Fab change and new chiplet design.
Correct. Intel's biggest performance increase since Skylake was arguably Alder Lake, why? because they added a bunch of cores. why? because AMD...has perf/watt or even perf/watt increased substantially? not really, what little increase there has been came from the new process.Intel is releasing new "gens" faster while the actual iterating is bumpy as best. AMD caught up with that yearly cacedence with their mobile chips anyway where it actually manages to both iterate and launch on time (even if availability on the market leaves to desire).
AMD did well with Zen so far using the new family -> expansion rhythm, it likely won't deviate from that. The new Zen c cores may add a twist by moving the effort of moving to new nodes to in-between gens.
By all accounts, being the first Zen family started within a financially stable AMD and all that, Zen 5 should be more daring and may prepare bigger promises for Zen 6 to expand into.
This I have to agree with. While a sane corporate goal and good for investors, they need to start focusing on market share, and that means not making the most money TODAY.Lisa Su has done great stuff for AMD, but focusing on maintaining margins above all else will risk them everything. Just look at Intel. There was a time they worshiped margins.
OK, just ONE of the things they should think about.... and 70% ? I don't even want that. 40-50% would be just fine. Competition would thrive ! Best for all of us.Market share is meaningless unless they have the production capacity to achieve it. Having some of the best CPUs on the market enables that, but there's a limit to how much they can expand production and there's an extent to which they can chase market share.
The idea that AMD could reverse positions and become 70% of the market isn't reasonable on any short term time scale. Just be happy that they're a healthy company and making great products.
Everyone should remember that Apple is one of the largest companies on the planet even though they have a global market share that's lower than AMD in a lot of different segments. If market share were a measure of goodness the best burger you could hope to get would be a Big Mac.
OK, just ONE of the things they should think about.... and 70% ? I don't even want that. 40-50% would be just fine. Competition would thrive ! Best for all of us.