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  1. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    I can run less voltage without HT for the same stability.

  2. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    Exactly right. I have a 14900K and run it w/o HT, 5.5/4.3, air cooled, always under 1.3V, 75C max temp and it's 100% stable. I could put it more but for insignificant gains in the daily work loads. Here's the thing. I like the K parts as they are. Intel gives you specs on what they can do...

  3. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    I agree that focusing the P cores on ST and using the E's for MT is the future. I've stated it many times. But as is often the case when discussing things in forums that was not my original point. My original point was that currently Raptor Cove "enjoys" a 31% improvement in IPC when running...

  4. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    Good points. But many people like myself will be looking at 40,000 CB R23 MT points as the benchmark for ARL to reach/beat. That's a stock score with good cooling. Over at Overclocking.net I've seen scores as high as 46,000 with aggressive custom loops setups.

  5. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    I thought we were comparing stock all-core frequency speeds. This is what the 14900K and 13900K will clock to under stock conditions. Adequate cooling and power is a prerequisite for ANY processor. Bottom line is that the 14900K will go as high as 5.7GHz all-core. If you don't agree that's...

  6. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    You are including the 16 E cores in that total score. Remove them and do the math. 31% is for the P cores HT on vs. off. Even if you consider the total score, the P's contribute to more than half of it so it's at least 15% of the total score due to HT. Then there is the frequency deficit and...

  7. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    Double post error.

  8. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    Incorrect. RPL will do 30% or more MT increase with HT in Cinebench MT. Raptor Lake - 10/20/2022 13900K 40760 Raptor Cove P Cores 8 5.8 2256 389 5.5 22528 2816 512 31.6% Gracemont E Cores 16 4.3 1140 265 4.3 18232 1140 265 13600K...

  9. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    Incorrect. 13900K runs 5.5GHz stock in MT. https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i9-13900k/24.html Furthermore it is customary to compare a new generation to the last generation, not two generations ago. 14900K will boost to 5.7GHz in stock form. As I wrote, ARL has a lot of ground...

  10. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    HT performance boost on MT apps/benches like Blender/Cinebench/Handbrake (some settings) is significant. Like 25%. Granted those are a niche software as I noted previously but the "old" scores from RPL are still there for Intel to deal with. Let me be specific: Doesn't have to be a magic...

  11. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    It will be a magic trick if they can do 16% better MT for 8+16 RPL to 8+16 ARL with no HT in ARL.

  12. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    Also I like that Intel started their numbering scheme over with the advent of tile based CPU's. MTL are "1" series, ARL "2" series, etc... We don't need to really care about the Ultra as we know the gen/architecture from that first digit. That as a good move on Intel's part.

  13. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    If we are talking about 5.5GHz all-core max frequency for Arrow Lake and assuming a good increase in transistor density and efficiency over Intel 7, then I am impressed with Intel's first crack at 20A. Couple of things to keep in mind. All of the ST frequencies advertised for Raptor Lake are...

  14. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    Regarding Raptor Lake crashing in games. There is some nuance here. Intel has specified the 14900K and KS especially at the extreme limit of their performance. What I mean is that if you don't have excellent cooling, power delivery, and the know how to set up load lines and such correctly...

  15. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    I meant to write Intel 4 where I wrote Intel 7. I fixed that. I believe you of course but unless I see actual improvements in the nodes when it comes to efficiency then who cares what they call them? I don't see much difference between Intel 4 (7nm) and Intel 7 (10+++++++++++++++++). MTL...

  16. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    Now that Intel's feature size is basically meaningless it seems as though Intel 7nm is actually going to be 4 steppings to be known as Intel 4, Intel 3, 20A, and 18A. Back in the 10nm days these would simply have been called 7, 7+, 7++, 7+++. This is good marketing as Intel gets to look like...

  17. Question By 2030, we will be buying massive NPUs with a CPU and GPU attached to it.

    It is my belief that AI will have the largest impact behind the scenes for most people and not from direct queries. What I mean by that is that software will work better and do want we intend without so many keystrokes. Topaz Photo AI is one example. I don't care if it's AI or not, it makes...

  18. Question By 2030, we will be buying massive NPUs with a CPU and GPU attached to it.

    Good. I am tired of thinking. Thinking is for puny Banner.

  19. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    Dead link. Anyone have the high resolution photo? I really want to see this.

  20. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    Where did you get the Lion Cove architecture specifics? Is there a schematic out there somewhere?

  21. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    I don't know if this is directed at me but I meant no disrespect. If I suddenly disappeared I would expect (hope) some of the people that I have been having in-depth discussions with for the past 20+ year might wonder what had happened to me. My post was one of respect and concern, not simple...

  22. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    Anyone know what happened to "IntelUser2000?" He had some great insights.

  23. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    The fact that they are only allowing certain benchmarks certainly lends credence to the possibility that they are not as confident as they would have us believe.

  24. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    My temps currently never go over 75C. I have tweaked quite a bit and this is where I ended up. I'm at a very safe voltage right now. Enabling HT would require more voltage even with other limits you specified in place otherwise the momentary voltage demand would reset or freeze the system. I...

  25. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    Good analysis there. I know from reading your posts that you have a deep understanding of this topic so I appreciate the reply. That type of "mont" IPC increase is mouth-watering...

  26. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    Theoretically yes, you are correct. But in reality there are cases where this isn't the best option. For example, with my 14900K I have HT turned off. I can achieve 5.5/4.3 in a more stable manner and with lower temps than with HT on. While there are very few applications that will slam all...

  27. Israel: We Are At War

    I am trying to sort out truth from fiction. I'm hearing and reading a lot of different "truths." For example, I heard that there are many Palestinians that live in the Jewish part of Israel peacefully and have been for decades? Is this true or propaganda? It seems to me that the UN made a...

  28. Israel: We Are At War

    Thank you for the detailed reply. 1st response: Someone posted this is Palestine with a map. I have never seen "Palestine" written on a map and wanted to know if I was missing something. You might not like the question but it is legit. 2nd response: I would have been against the attack on Oct...

  29. Israel: We Are At War

    Okay so the Palestinians are occupied by Hamas? So they are under subjugation by both Israel and Hamas? It's worse than I thought!

  30. Israel: We Are At War

    How come the map doesn't read Palestine? I was under the impression that area has been contested for thousands of years? Not that this has anything to do with today unless the goal is to eradicate the Jews from the area because it is not their land?

  31. Israel: We Are At War

    Again, I'm not well versed on this subject but I had heard that Israel had given full control to the Gaza strip to the Palestinians in 2005 and then the Palestinians voted Hamas to be their leadership/government? What was Israel doing from 2005 to Oct. 7 to eradicate the Palestinians? So if...

  32. Israel: We Are At War

    Isn't Hamas the government that the Palestinians voted in or am I wrong there?

  33. Israel: We Are At War

    I'm confused. What exactly does Hamas want from Israel? Or vice-versa. What ends this conflict one and for all? I realize there is a lot of contested history but this is where we are. How does the killing stop permanently? I see lots of protestors but I don't know what the demands are...

  34. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    While there is no doubt HT increases efficiency with a non-hybrid design, I'm not so sure about a hybrid design where we have cores specifically designed to handle ST (or low thread count) work loads and additional cores designed to handle high thread count workloads. We have a new paradigm...

  35. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    Also while the lack of HT will diminish MT performance among the P cores, it will allow the P's to reach higher clocks with less power and heat when there are compute intensive threads thrown their way. Of course this assumes the E's are capable of handling all of the "lighter work" the missing...

  36. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    Raptor Cove has about 45% or so better IPC than Gracemont when it comes to single core. So while the increased size of Skymont is enticing I find it hard to believe Skymont will approach Raptor Cove IPC, which would be needed for Arrow Lake to compete with Raptor Lake in MT. Houston, we have...

  37. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    Let's use the Geekbench ST and MT performance below to "back into" ARL 15900K or whatever it will be called. Assume 8+16 part and no HT. I am also assuming a 5% clock regression with the move from 13900K to 15900K, or whatever it will be called. Lion Cove 5.4GHz ST, 5.2GHz MT Skymont would be...

  38. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    If I wanted to really work I could put a custom loop on it, maybe even a chiller and get maybe 8% more performance for like $500 and a ton of electricity use. Not worth it for me and it doesn't sound like fun to buy or build. 5.5/4.3 is easy for the 14900K at under 1.1V under load with HT off...

  39. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    My experience running Photoshop, Digital video and audio software, vector illustration, Topaz video/photo ai, Handbrake, ... the rest is easy on the CPU (Office, Chrome, etc..) Given strong P cores and enough E's, HT isn't a benefit to most people outside of DC and benchmarking. Most software...

  40. Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

    I believe that the minor changes to Rapter Cove to turn in into Redwood Cove were simply to offset the latency penalty in moving to the tile based format. I write this because the only evidence we have to any changes to Raptor Cove>Redwood Cove are the "larger L2 cache" as written about by...
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