4070 reviews thread

[DAPUNISHER]

As I stated, so far the only argument supporting the survey, is appeal to ignorance. If that's the only bullet in the gun, they're shooting blanks.

The survey had a 25% surge in a language in a single month. Nearly 10% for a single GPU. Compounding the shenanigans is the fact that the error was not discovered, and the stats were published. Only the crapstorm of questions over the numbers led to the "correction". If you want to be that generous about what to call it.

"It's a bug"

The bug -

 

[Heartbreaker]

Statistically accurate data is anything but trivial to collect and present.

This kind of data is trivially easy to collect and present.

To each his own, when I want to see how cards sold relatively to each other, I'll look at Steam data.

You guys can keep reading tea leaves, looking at pictures of stock on shelves, and MLID rumors.

 

[psolord]

I found out something weird, or not so weird, but what is even more weird, is that I will ask about it in the 4070 reviews thread and it concerns the 4070ti, but I guess they are the same family right, so it should be somewhat relevant for the 4070s too?

Anyhoo, my 4070ti did not work on the Asrock P67 extreme6. I mean the system does not even post. Ok noone is going to use such cards on such systems, still some questions have arisen. I mean why wouldn't the system even post? It has a uefi bios after all. It even detected a nvme drive, attached to a pcie adapter (for testing only). Also the 3060ti works fine. So why not the 4070ti hmmm....

 

[Heartbreaker]

I found out something weird, or not so weird, but what is even more weird, is that I will ask about it in the 4070 reviews thread and it concerns the 4070ti, but I guess they are the same family right, so it should be somewhat relevant for the 4070s too?

Anyhoo, my 4070ti did not work on the Asrock P67 extreme6. I mean the system does not even post. Ok noone is going to use such cards on such systems, still some questions have arisen. I mean why wouldn't the system even post? It has a uefi bios after all. It even detected a nvme drive, attached to a pcie adapter (for testing only). Also the 3060ti works fine. So why not the 4070ti hmmm....

Are you sure the 4070 Ti is ok?

 

[psolord]

Are you sure the 4070 Ti is ok?

Yeah it worked fine on my z370 and on the z690 ofc. I am typing from the z690 system right now, while pausing from Jedi Survivor.

Also on second thought, maybe I have not tested the 3060ti on that motherboard. I think it was my Gigabyte P67 one. However I did test the rx6600 for sure and it worked fine. As fine as it could anyway, with pci 2.0 X8 bus, but it was compatible anyway.

 

[Leeea]

Anyhow, the Steam stats chart is suspect and should definitely be questioned.

You think Nvidia is gaming the steam stats chart?

If I remember right it is just a cmd that can be run or something like that.

Could be nvidia driver rerunning the command over and over.

Would be a classic nvidia move. The company has been involved in enough straight up scams over the years cannot put it past them. ( looking at you GTX 970* )

How to make your PC take the Steam Hardware Survey

Make your PC hardware count by taking the Steam Hardware Survey.

www.pcworld.com

for those who do not remember the gtx970:
*https://www.google.com/search?q=GTX+970+lawsuit

 

[maddie]

You think Nvidia is gaming the steam stats chart?

If I remember right it is just a cmd that can be run or something like that.

Could be nvidia driver rerunning the command over and over.

Would be a classic nvidia move.

How to make your PC take the Steam Hardware Survey

Make your PC hardware count by taking the Steam Hardware Survey.

www.pcworld.com

Can't begin to say why, but something strange is definitely happening. The survey does not agree with raw sales to a degree beyond mere chance.

 

[Heartbreaker]

You think Nvidia is gaming the steam stats chart?

If I remember right it is just a cmd that can be run or something like that.

Could be nvidia driver rerunning the command over and over.

Resorting to wacky conspiracy theories, because that pesky reality tells you something you don't like.

 

[coercitiv]

So the survey is somehow linked to specific games or apps?

The only difference between the surveys appears to be what game or app the the survey is tied to, but all seem to collect identical information. If you enter 1, you’re taking the Dota 2 survey; 2 is for Counter Strike: Global Offensive; 3 is for Source Filmmaker; and 4 is the Steam VR survey. You can only take each one once.

 

[maddie]

Resorting to wacky conspiracy theories, because that pesky reality tells you something you don't like.

Yeah, the sun is the center of the solar system, and other such crazy conspiracy theories.

The amateurish cheap shot "conspiracy theory" moniker is used by those unable to reason their beliefs successfully. Guess what, the world is filled with conspiracies. Conspiring to set prices, to affect game results, to cheat at exams, miscarriages of justice by law enforcement, political shenanigans, gang robberies, etc, plus the absolute worst, to maintain the integrity of the Steam survey accuracy, in the face of anomalies. Ha, had to add that last heinous one.

 

[psolord]

Since we are talking steam surveys, the last time it took a survey of my system, was when I was testing my 2500k+7950 configuration. That was three years ago.

And all of the sudden, during the past two weeks, it asked me on all my systems and I said yes bitch, for all my good systems only. That means no 4/4 2500k uploaded. Sorry 2500k dude, have to drive the median of the cpu threads up.

 

[coercitiv]

during the past two weeks, it asked me on all my systems and I said yes bitch, for all my good systems only

Are you using a single steam account?

 

[psolord]

Are you using a single steam account?

Yeap.

Do I need more? :O

 

[coercitiv]

Do I need more? :O

I was just asking for confirmation. Collecting multiple system specs from a single account does have some implications, one of which was speculated to be linked with the "bug" from last month's surge in Simplified Chinese systems.

Actually, digging slightly deeper I found one example of developer notes that shows the kind of issues Steam faces when aiming to collect statistically meaningful data:

STEAM HARDWARE SURVEY FIX – 5/2/2018

The latest Steam Hardware Survey incorporates a number of fixes that address over counting of cyber cafe customers that occurred during the prior seven months.

Historically, the survey used a client-side method to ensure that systems were counted only once per year, in order to provide an accurate picture of the entire Steam user population. It turns out, however, that many cyber cafes manage their hardware in a way that was causing their customers to be over counted.

Around August 2017, we started seeing larger-than-usual movement in certain stats, notably an increase in Windows 7 usage, an increase in quad-core CPU usage, as well as changes in CPU and GPU market share. This period also saw a large increase in the use of Simplified Chinese. All of these coincided with an increase in Steam usage in cyber cafes in Asia, whose customers were being over counted in the survey.

It took us some time to root-cause the problem and deploy a fix, but we are confident that, as of April 2018, the Steam Hardware Survey is no longer over counting users.

If Steam attempts to incorporate multiple system configs under the umbrella of a single account, then non-typical behavior in certain markets can lead to odd results. I'd be curious to see what change in user behavior they faced last month and what they did to compensate.

 

[Aapje]

If Steam attempts to incorporate multiple system configs under the umbrella of a single account, then non-typical behavior in certain markets can lead to odd results. I'd be curious to see what change in user behavior they faced last month and what they did to compensate.

Perhaps the cyber cafes switched to making people use their own account instead of sharing one account. That would be logical if there is a piracy crackdown, because sharing a single account means that the cafe can buy the games one time and everyone can use those games without paying for those themselves.

But then if you are correct, those individual accounts would get identified as being a personal system of that user. So if you have 100 people with their own steam accounts randomly using one of the 10 computers in a cafe each time they visit, Steam would have recorded each of them as owners of those 10 systems. So each system would be counted 100 times, rather than 1 time.

 

[BFG10K]

Guys, guys, the 4070 is selling just fine, yo!

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070 Production Reportedly Halted Till June To Prevent Inventory Pile Up From Poor Sales

NVIDIA's GeForce RTX 4070 is reportedly not the success that the company hoped it would be & will be halting further production till June.

wccftech.com

 

[moonbogg]

Guys, guys, the 4070 is selling just fine, yo!

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070 Production Reportedly Halted Till June To Prevent Inventory Pile Up From Poor Sales

NVIDIA's GeForce RTX 4070 is reportedly not the success that the company hoped it would be & will be halting further production till June.

wccftech.com

I've worked in a fab shop and sometimes a customer would walk in the door and ask for a quote for a job that my boss didn't want to do because it would take time away from working on stuff for the main important customers. So he quoted the job really damn high. The logic was that hopefully the guy would just go away because it was too expensive, but if he agreed, that was fine too because he'd be paying enough to make it worth their while at least a little.
Nvidia is doing the same thing here by pricing their gaming products so terribly. They want those wafers for AI stuff. Gamers are now just like that guy walking into the shop that no one can be bothered to service. If you want a gaming card that has anything interesting to offer vs last gen, it's almost $2000 and it's called an RTX 4090. You can either buy that or kick rocks.

 

[Thunder 57]

I've worked in a fab shop and sometimes a customer would walk in the door and ask for a quote for a job that my boss didn't want to do because it would take time away from working on stuff for the main important customers. So he quoted the job really damn high. The logic was that hopefully the guy would just go away because it was too expensive, but if he agreed, that was fine too because he'd be paying enough to make it worth their while at least a little.
Nvidia is doing the same thing here by pricing their gaming products so terribly. They want those wafers for AI stuff. Gamers are now just like that guy walking into the shop that no one can be bothered to service. If you want a gaming card that has anything interesting to offer vs last gen, it's almost $2000 and it's called an RTX 4090. You can either buy that or kick rocks.

Same thing happened with me when I needed my Camaro fixed up many years ago. Brought it to a shop and they wanted $10,000+. They clearly didn't want to do it. Brought it to another place and they did it for $3-4000ish.

 

[Saylick]

I've worked in a fab shop and sometimes a customer would walk in the door and ask for a quote for a job that my boss didn't want to do because it would take time away from working on stuff for the main important customers. So he quoted the job really damn high. The logic was that hopefully the guy would just go away because it was too expensive, but if he agreed, that was fine too because he'd be paying enough to make it worth their while at least a little.
Nvidia is doing the same thing here by pricing their gaming products so terribly. They want those wafers for AI stuff. Gamers are now just like that guy walking into the shop that no one can be bothered to service. If you want a gaming card that has anything interesting to offer vs last gen, it's almost $2000 and it's called an RTX 4090. You can either buy that or kick rocks.

Nvidia: No, we haven't forgotten about the consumer gaming market. What a ridiculous thing to say!

Also Nvidia: The price is the price. Take it or leave it.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Nvidia: No, we haven't forgotten about the consumer gaming market. What a ridiculous thing to say!

Also Nvidia: The price is the price. Take it or leave it.

Also every other company in the world: The price is the price. Take it or leave it.

 

[Aapje]

Also every other company in the world: The price is the price. Take it or leave it.

I wouldn't mind if the market was more competitive. The current GPU market is not functioning well and regulators should intervene, IMO.

 

[Golgatha]

I wouldn't mind if the market was more competitive. The current GPU market is not functioning well and regulators should intervene, IMO.

We can't even get the US government to regulate the price of life saving medicines. Regulation of gaming toys is not even on their radar.

 

[Mopetar]

Nvidia is doing the same thing here by pricing their gaming products so terribly. They want those wafers for AI stuff. Gamers are now just like that guy walking into the shop that no one can be bothered to service. If you want a gaming card that has anything interesting to offer vs last gen, it's almost $2000 and it's called an RTX 4090. You can either buy that or kick rocks.

They could easily solve the issue by making anything that's primarily a gamer card on a different node at some other fab like Samsung. Even if this adds to the development cost, they more than make up for it by not using TSMC wafers for the higher-margin gamer parts.

We can't even get the US government to regulate the price of life saving medicines. Regulation of gaming toys is not even on their radar.

Price controls never work in the way proponents hope they will. You might be able to get something at the lower, fixed price, but there will always be a perpetual supply shortage. It's why cities with extreme rent controls always have housing shortages or why putting price controls in place during shortage of any good means that supplies will remain limited for longer. If you put extreme price controls on life saving medicines, you can make sure existing cures are available for cheap, but don't be surprised when no one tries to find new or better cures.

The US would have lower costs if they stopped requiring that people purchase the newest cure which is much the same as the old one, but differs just enough to qualify for a new patent. The big pharmaceutical and medical companies have engaged in regulatory capture to ensure that the public be required to buy from them.

 

[Aapje]

We can't even get the US government to regulate the price of life saving medicines. Regulation of gaming toys is not even on their radar.

Healthcare is a topic where people tend to become utterly irrational and extremist, resulting in all kinds of stupid decision making by governments and regulators as they try to appease irrational demands.

Anyway, these cards just stopped being gaming toys and became the future of computing. So this is exactly the moment for regulators to step in and prevent one company from becoming too dominant. They can do that without setting prices, which is a very dumb way to regulate markets. For example, they could force Nvidia to make CUDA an open standard and force them to license certain patents for free or a cheap price.

 

[moonbogg]

Healthcare is a topic where people tend to become utterly irrational and extremist, resulting in all kinds of stupid decision making by governments and regulators as they try to appease irrational demands.

Anyway, these cards just stopped being gaming toys and became the future of computing. So this is exactly the moment for regulators to step in and prevent one company from becoming too dominant. They can do that without setting prices, which is a very dumb way to regulate markets. For example, they could force Nvidia to make CUDA an open standard and force them to license certain patents for free or a cheap price.

Agreed. These are just gaming toys and expecting regulation to help people literally afford toys seems unlikely. It's been interesting to watch the birth of the GPU and it's evolution into what it has now become. It almost feels like a lesson in future history that's too perfectly educational to be a coincidence. For instance, it seems like I'm in an ancestor simulation designed to educate me in how my own existence came about; by the evolution of the GPU and related technologies resulting in our future techno-selves.