Info 64MB V-Cache on 5XXX Zen3 Average +15% in Games

[Kedas]

Well we know now how they will bridge the long wait to Zen4 on AM5 Q4 2022.
Production start for V-cache is end this year so too early for Zen4 so this is certainly coming to AM4.
+15% Lisa said is "like an entire architectural generation"

 

[Thunder 57]

If it performs like a 12900K they are going to price it at 12900K level. I trought we learned this lesson already.

That would be a mistake. The 12900K would blow it out of the water in anything that can take advantage of the extra cores/threads.

 

[ryanjagtap]

I think the 5800X3D is a stopgap for consumers to stay on the AM4 platform and stop them from going the alder lake platform, and then show off the zen 4 and AM5 platform.
5800X3D competes with Intel 12900K for gaming, gamers choose this.
5950X competes with Intel 12900K on multithreaded workloads.
No need to migrate to Intel and we'll give you zen4 in h2 2022

 

[Kedas]

Also adding an 5950X3D would make sense, price per die is about the same.
Adding an 5900X3D may be too cheap to introduce it.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Also adding an 5950X3D would make sense, price per die is about the same.

Except as JoeRambo pointed out, it has the potential to make Zen 4 look bad. So may never happen.

 

[Kedas]

Except as JoeRambo pointed out, it has the potential to make Zen 4 look bad. So may never happen.

Very unlikely since we expect an IPC >+25% and possible all core clocks of 5Ghz. But it's possible that same target market isn't going to upgrade again so soon after an upgrade to 5950X3D (half year later)

 

[Makaveli]

I think the 5800X3D is a stopgap for consumers to stay on the AM4 platform and stop them from going the alder lake platform, and then show off the zen 4 and AM5 platform.

I'm not sure I see that. From most people that I talk to cost is the reason they avoid ADL-S. Secondly if one is already on AM4 this is a drop in replacement, instead of a full new build. That alone is enough reasons for many to stay put. If I was building brand new right now I wouldn't go AM4 because there is no more processors coming out for it.

 

[inf64]

Except as JoeRambo pointed out, it has the potential to make Zen 4 look bad. So may never happen.

Zen4 will have massive IPC advantage even without the V cache. Also there will surely be Zen4 parts with Vcache which will widen the gap even more. AMD is positioned really well to have top to bottom performance and performance/watt crown.

 

[biostud]

Maybe a prize shuffle once the 5800X3D is launched?
Lowering the price of 5800x and 5600x to match their alder lake counterparts and the fit the 5800X3D in around $449?

I'm sure AMD wants to grow their market share, so they need an aggressive pricing policy, and they can probably afford it for the short amount of time until zen4 launches.

 

[ryanjagtap]

I'm not sure I see that. From most people that I talk to cost is the reason they avoid ADL-S. Secondly if one is already on AM4 this is a drop in replacement, instead of a full new build. That alone is enough reasons for many to stay put. If I was building brand new right now I wouldn't go AM4 because there is no more processors coming out for it.

Yes well I said stay, not for new builders. This is mostly for those coming from 2000 and 3000 ryzen series, just drop in new processor in your AM4 build and voila gaming performance with 5800X3d or an 5950X for same multhithreaded performance on par with 12900K

 

[biostud]

As I see it AMD made vcache for Threadripper and Epyc, they launch 5800X3D with only one purpose, to have the fastest gaming CPU to keep us tech enthusiast mentioning AMD as the best CPU for gaming. It is a placeholder until zen4. They want the AMD logo to be on top of benchmark charts on all gaming sites.

 

[ryanjagtap]

As I see it AMD made vcache for Threadripper and Epyc, they launch 5800X3D with only one purpose, to have the fastest gaming CPU to keep us tech enthusiast mentioning AMD as the best CPU for gaming. It is a placeholder until zen4. They want the AMD logo to be on top of benchmark charts on all gaming sites.

I don't think we're gonna see any v-cache Threadripper for retail market, if any at all.

 

[jpiniero]

I don't think we're gonna see any v-cache Threadripper for retail market, if any at all.

The Non-Pro Threadripper might be dead actually. Threadripper Pro appears to be a hit. I could see a Zen 3D Threadripper Pro eventually.

 

[Leeea]

the 5800x3d is a disappointment.

I have no doubt it does what they claim.


But what I wanted to see was a 5950x3d.

I had no intention on buying any time soon, but disappointing to see there will be no upgrade to the 5900 and 5950 on AM4. DDR5 feels like it is going to be expensive for a long time to come.

 

[Schmide]

Specs on: I will say this is right out of AMD's mantra. It will come time for release and after the vcache 5800, Lisa the great Su will get up, claim we listened to gamers, and show off a vcache 5900. Then clam we didn't want to stop there, v5950 (prob holiday release). Finishing up with, best is yet to come AM5 lineup preview. For those gamers who need workstation performance...

 

[Schmide]

adding: There is a reason a void is being carved out in the Threadripper (Non Pro) segment. AM5. As DDR5 adds quad channel esque performance in 2 dims it is perfect for everything below the Pro.

 

[Mopetar]

I think the 5800X3D is a stopgap for consumers to stay on the AM4 platform and stop them from going the alder lake platform, and then show off the zen 4 and AM5 platform.
5800X3D competes with Intel 12900K for gaming, gamers choose this.
5950X competes with Intel 12900K on multithreaded workloads.
No need to migrate to Intel and we'll give you zen4 in h2 2022

I think it mainly exists a pipe-cleaner product to work out the logistics of stacked die products. AMD needs to go down this road eventually and they learn a lot from Zen 3D as a product as opposed to simply dealing with engineering samples.

Given that we have a rough timeframe for Zen 4, are there that many people who are going to jump ship to Intel right now without waiting to see what AMD's new platform has to offer as well? I mainly see this as a chip for people who are using an older Zen 2 CPU and want an upgrade path that doesn't involve building a new system. We don't know pricing yet, but it could represent a good value for the people in that situation.

If you were gaming on Zen 2, then this offers an almost 40% uplift, which is frankly quite astounding to see by the end of a platform. It's certainly not for everyone and I'd have a hard time saying anyone who isn't already on AM4 should jump on this now when AM5 will be here sometime in the next 6-12 months.

 

[igor_kavinski]

At this point, 12900KS seems a lot more interesting, despite the higher power draw. It's like AMD has no interest in playing processor wars with Intel in the desktop gaming segment.

 

[Mopetar]

But what I wanted to see was a 5950x3d.

Maybe we still might. Or maybe a 5900X3D since AMD has to be doing something with the chips that don't bin well enough to use all 8 cores at the specified clock rate.

It makes more sense for them to do this given that they just wanted something that could still compete with Intel in terms of gaming. An additional 8 cores isn't going to add much to gaming performance for the most part and releasing any chips that use two CCDs means that there are fewer CPUs they can sell overall.

Another reason that they may not want to sell a two-CCD Ryzen part is that these might end up in a future Threadripper part and they want people to buy into that platform if the extra cache offers a significant benefit.

 

[Ajay]

At this point, 12900KS seems a lot more interesting, despite the higher power draw. It's like AMD has no interest in playing processor wars with Intel in the desktop gaming segment.

AMD is selling every good die coming out of their wafer allocation. They really can't afford to compete harder if they wanted to, IMHO (on the basis of profitability**). Zen4 is coming, will be faster than Alder Lake and Raptor Lake, so they are in good stead for 2022 & 2023 on the desktop.

**meaning the best dice, and the majority of dice, are going to Epyc Rome and Milan.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Zen4 is coming, will be faster than Alder Lake and Raptor Lake, so they are in good stead for 2022 & 2023 on the desktop.

Zen 4 > Raptor Lake, that remains to be seen. We have no idea what tricks Intel might have up its sleeve. AMD will reign supreme in power efficiency but in pure bruteforce ST performance, Intel might surprise us again.

 

[Ajay]

Zen 4 > Raptor Lake, that remains to be seen. We have no idea what tricks Intel might have up its sleeve. AMD will reign supreme in power efficiency but in pure brute-force ST performance, Intel might surprise us again.

Same process right? 400 watts, here we come!

 

[Tuna-Fish]

adding: There is a reason a void is being carved out in the Threadripper (Non Pro) segment. AM5. As DDR5 adds quad channel esque performance in 2 dims it is perfect for everything below the Pro.

The largest usecase for Threadripper non-pro is not because you need that many threads, it's because you need more PCIe.

 

[nicalandia]

This looks to be turning into a complete debacle for AMD. I know a lot of you will deny this. The 5800x hit $299 just after the Alder Lake release. Nobody is going to pay $600 for 15% gaming performance. Except the people here I guess. That is not smart investing. It's sort of like buying B-Die for 2-3% performance and a 100%+ premium. It makes the 5900x the CPU of choice if you start throwing around $600 price tags.

So releasing The Best Gaming CPU so they can claim they have the Gaming, Workstation and Server performance lead is a Debacle?

 

[nicalandia]

At this point, 12900KS seems a lot more interesting, despite the higher power draw. It's like AMD has no interest in playing processor wars with Intel in the desktop gaming segment.

12900KS will have as much chance at beating 5800XD at gaming than the 12900K, they can clock all they want to 5.5 Ghz, it will not be enough to overcome the gaming lead

 

[Markfw]

So releasing The Best Gaming CPU so they can claim they have the Gaming, Workstation and Server performance lead is a Debacle?

He is assuming it will be $600, which I have no idea why he thinks this, NO WAY.