8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

[BFG10K]

8GB

• Dying Light 2, Battlefield 2042, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, Starfield, Forza Horizon 5, Horizon Forbidden West, Alan Wake 2, The Last of Us, Tekken 8, FC 24, Detroit Become Human, Death Stranding, Alone in The Dark, Overwatch 2
  3060 12GB higher 1% low than 4060 8GB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIfz57wmywg
• Cyberpunk 2077, Diablo 4, Hogwarts Legacy, Horizon Zero Dawn, Microsoft Flight Sim 2020, Witcher 3, Watch Dogs Legion skip to 4K + DLSS for each game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiaWWd0xGc
• Ratchet & Clank, Plague Tale Requiem, Last Of Us, Jedi Survivor, Far Cry 6, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Cyberpunk 2077 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr3MckDxMfE&pp=ygUTMTZnYiB2cyA4Z2IgNDA2MCB0aQ==
• Far Cry 6, Godfall, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Forspoken, Doom Eternal, Watchdogs Legion https://youtu.be/fJc--C01P90?t=268
• Last Of Us, Resident Evil 4, Callisto Protocol, Plague Tale Requiem, Halo Infinite, Forspoken https://youtu.be/2_Y3E631ro8?t=429
• Last Of Us, Hogwarts Legacy, Resident Evil 4, Forspoken, Plague Tale Requiem, Callisto Protocol https://youtu.be/Rh7kFgHe21k?t=288
• Hogwarts Legacy, Last Of Us, Spider Man Remastered, Doom Eternal, Forza Horizon 5 https://youtu.be/R943CbDTq_s?t=1473
• Horizon Forbidden West 4060 has issues @ 1080p + DLSS unless you switch off frame generation and reduce settings to high https://youtu.be/3AyKvI23VGw?t=233
• Horizon Forbidden West 3070 requires reducing textures 2 notches https://youtu.be/xTwEGy6HHKo?t=351
• Deathloop https://youtu.be/lu_XHyO-6zY?t=918
• Ghost Recon Breakpoint https://youtu.be/iUGppQVpXzU?t=529
• Resident Evil 2 https://youtu.be/Aa-gsgRjMII?t=796
• Talos Principle 2 https://youtu.be/K6FATQAuEwI?t=337
• Spider Man Remastered https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1060
• Witcher 3 https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1240

Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.

Spoiler

Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:

Spoiler

Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

Spoiler

10GB / 12GB

• Plague Tale Requiem 3080 10GB tanks if you enable ray tracing, would be fast enough if it had more VRAM because if you stop moving, the framerate stabilizes to >60FPS https://youtu.be/7zjrMww3fAc?t=496
• Hogwarts Legacy 4K + RT, 4060Ti 16GB is faster than 4070 12GB https://youtu.be/X-h_R488Mq8?t=191

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.

Spoiler

1. It's the player's fault.
2. It's the reviewer's fault.
3. It's the developer's fault.
4. It's AMD's fault.
5. It's the game's fault.
6. It's the driver's fault.
7. It's a system configuration issue.
8. Wrong settings were tested.
9. Wrong area was tested.
10. Wrong games were tested.
11. 4K is irrelevant.
12. Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
13. Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
15. It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
16. It's an anomaly.
17. It's a console port.
18. It's a conspiracy against NV.
19. 8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
21. Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.

According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!

 

[BFG10K]

They measured several examples exceeding 12GB with Microsoft's developer tools. They also confirmed a lot of the games listed way back in the OP blowing past 8GB.

8GB is DOA and 12GB is borderline. The only hope for future AMD/NV 8GB cards is having very good pricing, otherwise they'll be absolute garbage.

Why Are Modern PC Games Using So Much VRAM?

With the best graphics cards now sporting more RAM than an average PC, we look at just why games are using ever more video memory to create...

www.techspot.com

 

[igor_kavinski]

Millions, if not billions, will go down the drain in the next few years as uninformed clueless gamers drop their hard earned cash on the cheaper cards with 8 GB. SMH in dismay. This is why we have failed as a species. Held back by the stupidity of a powerful few who keep selling us crappy hardware. PS5 Pro with 20GB RAM (if it happens) is gonna make things muddier still.

 

[Jaskalas]

They measured several examples exceeding 12GB with Microsoft's developer tools. They also confirmed a lot of the games listed way back in the OP blowing past 8GB.

8GB is DOA and 12GB is borderline. The only hope for future AMD/NV 8GB cards is having very good pricing, otherwise they'll be absolute garbage.

Why Are Modern PC Games Using So Much VRAM?

With the best graphics cards now sporting more RAM than an average PC, we look at just why games are using ever more video memory to create...

www.techspot.com

That was very informative, thank you.
Given the delay in mid range GPUs receiving higher VRAM, it may seriously damage the PC gaming market for years to come. It will be marred as vastly inferior to consoles unless one spends big.

The RX 6 series showed that it does not have to be this way, but the RTX 40 series and its 12GB really is just forced obsolescence. That article proved that we are late in starting the "12GB is not enough" thread.

 

[blckgrffn]

Millions, if not billions, will go down the drain in the next few years as uninformed clueless gamers drop their hard earned cash on the cheaper cards with 8 GB. SMH in dismay. This is why we have failed as a species. Held back by the stupidity of a powerful few who keep selling us crappy hardware. PS5 Pro with 20GB RAM (if it happens) is gonna make things muddier still.

I think that gamers buying 6600 type cards for $250 and less for at least one more generation are still OK. It's the equivalent of a 4GB card a couple of years ago. They know that "Ultra" is off the table and with a few minutes of tweaking they are going to be OK.

Now, a $400+ 8GB card in 2023? Ouch. I still think the 3070/3070ti are going to be viewed poorly in hindsight. The 3060ti imo was a reasonable compromise - more GPU and at the time just enough framebuffer to use it vs a 3060/2060S.

 

[Golgatha]

I think that gamers buying 6600 type cards for $250 and less for at least one more generation are still OK. It's the equivalent of a 4GB card a couple of years ago. They know that "Ultra" is off the table and with a few minutes of tweaking they are going to be OK.

Now, a $400+ 8GB card in 2023? Ouch. I still think the 3070/3070ti are going to be viewed poorly in hindsight. The 3060ti imo was a reasonable compromise - more GPU and at the time just enough framebuffer to use it vs a 3060/2060S.

At the end of it all, my opinion is buying a future proof nVidia card at $1000+ (only the 4080 and 4090 are future proofed at all IMO) is very tiring. I won't keep up that purchasing treadmill and I can't do it for my 3 sons.

 

[blckgrffn]

At the end of it all, my opinion is buying a future proof nVidia card at $1000+ (only the 4080 and 4090 are future proofed at all IMO) is very tiring. I won't keep up that purchasing treadmill and I can't do it for my 3 sons.

No doubt!

As I've shared before, I got my kids 6700XTs and that's just going to be it for a long time. As you said, spending $1k+ (which even a 7900XT would be for me, given that they would need new cases and maaaybe new PSU's to accommodate) is fairly ludicrous. They may need to learn how to tweak game settings, although that's usually my fun.

Thinking the generation after this one might have some hope around $300 to $400 for a "significant" upgrade but this entire generation - even the unlaunched AMD parts - is getting a pass.

I saw a slick deal for a 6800 @ $450 and thought "finally". For my money and those I help to spend it, there's no way I am recommending spending more for a 12GB than what a capable 16GB card can be had for. I've done the same for 8 vs 12, buying a 12GB 2060 for a good friend rather than a 6600 given relatively same pricing. It works both ways. I also insisted he step to 32GB ram too, so I think that at least for that build I did the right thing.

 

[H T C]

I just bought myself a "future proof" AMD card (arrived yesterday, but it's not yet "online"): my new RX 6600 is almost begging to replace my RX 480 4GB ...

Will have to wait a few more days since that's not the only piece of hardware i bought: also bought an X570 board, 5800X3D, a new SSD and some RAM to go along with it, and i'll try and set it all up during the weekend.


Barring malfunctions / breaking of some sort, i expect this RX 6600 to "serve me" for about 5 years or so ...


"FUTURE PROOF" for the win ... YEAH BABY ...

 

[fleshconsumed]

Well, I got MSI Trio 6800XT from local marketplace for $400 yesterday. Pretty good out of pocket price. The 6800 Sapphire Pulse that I got a few weeks ago is going to replace my wife's 3060ti, and the 3060ti is heading off to ebay/hardwareswap. The 6800XT should be a good match for my 4K monitor and 6800 is an even better match for my wife's 1440p.

I was looking at Microcenter, and they had open box reference 7900XT for under $700 a few times over the past few months. I do admit I was really tempted, but after doing the math used RDNA2 cards if you can buy them locally and avoid paying tax provide unbeatable value that makes the most sense.

Used 6800XT@$400 out of pocket = $3.17 per frame
Open Box 7900XT@$750 after tax = $4.65 per frame
4070@$650 after tax = $5.15 per frame
4070ti@$866 after tax = $5.66 per frame
4080@$1190 after tax = $6.54 per frame

I truly hope consumers wise up and stop dropping money on overpriced and vram gimped nvidia cards.

 

[In2Photos]

At the end of it all, my opinion is buying a future proof nVidia card at $1000+ (only the 4080 and 4090 are future proofed at all IMO) is very tiring. I won't keep up that purchasing treadmill and I can't do it for my 3 sons.

Agreed. My daughter and I both have 6800XTs, coming from a 1660 and a 1060 6GB, but those cards were used in old builds that were repurposed. When we decided to build new systems I wanted something that would be powerful enough to last a while and the cost on the nVidia side was too much. I got two 6800XTs for $1100 total with 2 free games each. My son is still using a 1660 Super, but he isn't playing any new games so it's still cruising along playing the games he likes. I've thought about picking up a 6800XT for him too, but I might have to power limit the card with a 650W PSU so I'm tempted to hold out and see what the RX7000 cards bring if he needs an upgrade.

 

[fleshconsumed]

I've thought about picking up a 6800XT for him too, but I might have to power limit the card with a 650W PSU so I'm tempted to hold out and see what the RX7000 cards bring if he needs an upgrade.

Eh, 650W is plenty for 6800XT. I'm actually running 5950x and 6800XT on a 500W fanless power supply and it's just dandy. I don't think there is room for overclock, but at stock 500W runs it fine, 650W is plenty.

 

[Saylick]

Glad I got a copy of Jedi Survivor included with my 7700X purchase even if it is struggling out of the gate. It runs pretty well on my 5800X3D with a 3080, and it's pretty smooth on my 4090 with 7700X as well.

Side note - I purchased my 7700X as an open box, but the open box looked awful (caked with thermal paste, etc.), so the manager at my local Micro Center substituted a new one for the open box price instead. For $285 I ended up with a NIB 7700X, 32GB of RAM (this was during the free RAM promo), and a copy of Jedi Survivor.

So you're the reason why AMD's client division posted losses during yesterday's earnings report... 😛

 

[Golgatha]

So you're the reason why AMD's client division posted losses during yesterday's earnings report... 😛

Totally, I only purchased a 5800X3D, 5800X , 5700X, 5950X, 5600G, and 7700X in the last 3 years; I really need to do more.

On topic - I think a lot of the downturn has to do with families like mine that poured money into updated and new machines for home school during COVID, but now are sitting on good and very recent hardware during this ridiculous inflation period. The cost of raising and eventually putting 3 boys through college (1 in and 2 going in the next 2 years) is quite overwhelming to be sure, so I'm limiting my spending a lot for the next few years with regard to hardware. Graphics card wise, we have a 4090, 3080 10GB, 3060, 2070 Super, and 3060 Ti. We're gaming at 1440p 144/165 Hz, except for one son that has a 1080p 240Hz monitor, so we should be good for the next couple of years I think.

 

[In2Photos]

Eh, 650W is plenty for 6800XT. I'm actually running 5950x and 6800XT on a 500W fanless power supply and it's just dandy. I don't think there is room for overclock, but at stock 500W runs it fine, 650W is plenty.

I have our 6800XTs tuned to use less than 200W while achieving roughly stock performance so you're right he would be fine with a 650W, especially since he has a 5600X. Not sure what I was thinking.

 

[Aapje]

I think that the smart move right now is to wait if you have anything halfway decent, as it seems inevitable that the next gen is going to offer more VRAM per tier.

If you have an old card, then either a relatively cheap 8 GB card or one of the cheap cards with relatively large amounts of VRAM makes sense. Which pretty much means AMD.

 

[Golgatha]

I think that the smart move right now is to wait if you have anything halfway decent, as it seems inevitable that the next gen is going to offer more VRAM per tier.

If you have an old card, then either a relatively cheap 8 GB card or one of the cheap cards with relatively large amounts of VRAM makes sense. Which pretty much means AMD.

I dunno about inevitable. The way we're headed the 5080 will be a 192bit part with 12GB; kinda kidding and kinda not.

 

[igor_kavinski]

7950 XT comes out with 32GB and it's game over for Nvidia!

 

[coercitiv]

Let's take a break from the current state of the market and look at what next gen games have on offer.

The video is worth watching in it's entirety and is centered around technological advances in character animation based on motion capture. As expected, neural networks can help a lot. Also as expected, textures need to be very detailed.

 

[Aapje]

The overacting is unfortunate, though. I wish they showed a video with good motion capture.

 

[coercitiv]

The overacting is unfortunate, though. I wish they showed a video with good motion capture.

I don't know how good of an actress she is besides this job, but I'm pretty sure that most actors who do motion capture for games learn to overact. On top of that, the character she plays is insane and traumatized. Not the best recipe for subtle reactions.

I do agree with you that a demo with another actor in a more nuanced role would help. I'd like to see the amount of facial muscle movement the system is able to replicate. Less moving lights and "makeup", more skin texture and micro movements. Having a side-by-side comparison with the recorded footage would also be nice.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

I wonder if animation is the next frontier for AI in games. Basically feed tons of mo-cap data to an algo and it should reasonably be able to "act" human insofar as a videogame requires it.

 

[blckgrffn]

Only so long as we get scenes like this:

https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/ai_generated_beer_commercial.mp4?_=1

(Spoiler its a beer commercial and hell scape all in one. And its hilarious.)

 

[coercitiv]

I wonder if animation is the next frontier for AI in games.

They're already working on it:

 

[VirtualLarry]

RTX 4060 ti, 8GB VRAM, 128-bit, $399.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

RTX 4060 ti, 8GB VRAM, 128-bit, $399.

Gross getting a DOA 8GB card for $400

 

[Jaskalas]

Gross getting a DOA 8GB card for $400

I mean, if you forget RTX exists... and you use low / medium settings, then I am sure a person can appreciate their brand new $400 GPU.