8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

[BFG10K]

8GB

• Dying Light 2, Battlefield 2042, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, Starfield, Forza Horizon 5, Horizon Forbidden West, Alan Wake 2, The Last of Us, Tekken 8, FC 24, Detroit Become Human, Death Stranding, Alone in The Dark, Overwatch 2
  3060 12GB higher 1% low than 4060 8GB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIfz57wmywg
• Cyberpunk 2077, Diablo 4, Hogwarts Legacy, Horizon Zero Dawn, Microsoft Flight Sim 2020, Witcher 3, Watch Dogs Legion skip to 4K + DLSS for each game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiaWWd0xGc
• Ratchet & Clank, Plague Tale Requiem, Last Of Us, Jedi Survivor, Far Cry 6, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Cyberpunk 2077 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr3MckDxMfE&pp=ygUTMTZnYiB2cyA4Z2IgNDA2MCB0aQ==
• Far Cry 6, Godfall, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Forspoken, Doom Eternal, Watchdogs Legion https://youtu.be/fJc--C01P90?t=268
• Last Of Us, Resident Evil 4, Callisto Protocol, Plague Tale Requiem, Halo Infinite, Forspoken https://youtu.be/2_Y3E631ro8?t=429
• Last Of Us, Hogwarts Legacy, Resident Evil 4, Forspoken, Plague Tale Requiem, Callisto Protocol https://youtu.be/Rh7kFgHe21k?t=288
• Hogwarts Legacy, Last Of Us, Spider Man Remastered, Doom Eternal, Forza Horizon 5 https://youtu.be/R943CbDTq_s?t=1473
• Horizon Forbidden West 4060 has issues @ 1080p + DLSS unless you switch off frame generation and reduce settings to high https://youtu.be/3AyKvI23VGw?t=233
• Horizon Forbidden West 3070 requires reducing textures 2 notches https://youtu.be/xTwEGy6HHKo?t=351
• Deathloop https://youtu.be/lu_XHyO-6zY?t=918
• Ghost Recon Breakpoint https://youtu.be/iUGppQVpXzU?t=529
• Resident Evil 2 https://youtu.be/Aa-gsgRjMII?t=796
• Talos Principle 2 https://youtu.be/K6FATQAuEwI?t=337
• Spider Man Remastered https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1060
• Witcher 3 https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1240

Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.

Spoiler

Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:

Spoiler

Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

Spoiler

10GB / 12GB

• Plague Tale Requiem 3080 10GB tanks if you enable ray tracing, would be fast enough if it had more VRAM because if you stop moving, the framerate stabilizes to >60FPS https://youtu.be/7zjrMww3fAc?t=496
• Hogwarts Legacy 4K + RT, 4060Ti 16GB is faster than 4070 12GB https://youtu.be/X-h_R488Mq8?t=191

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.

Spoiler

1. It's the player's fault.
2. It's the reviewer's fault.
3. It's the developer's fault.
4. It's AMD's fault.
5. It's the game's fault.
6. It's the driver's fault.
7. It's a system configuration issue.
8. Wrong settings were tested.
9. Wrong area was tested.
10. Wrong games were tested.
11. 4K is irrelevant.
12. Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
13. Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
15. It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
16. It's an anomaly.
17. It's a console port.
18. It's a conspiracy against NV.
19. 8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
21. Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.

According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!

 

[DeathReborn]

The 4060 Ti image looks two dimensional. Like almost no bump mapping. No depth perception.

I've seen better graphics on PS3.

So it makes games look like Redfall. Ouch.

 

[Jaskalas]

So it makes games look like Redfall. Ouch.

From what I can tell on these review videos.....
These days, turning down the texture settings will result in the LOD replacement textures being used. Meant to be viewed from a distance and never seen up close. The muddy result is considerably worse than my experience the last time I had an entry level GPU (GTX 750 Ti). Of course I never expected a $400 GPU to provide an equal or worse result. I felt safe with the idea of turning down the textures (if needed) based on past experience 8 years ago. That was a mistake.

 

[psolord]

I recently sold my 3060ti, which I bought during the pandemic for $449 through the Newegg shuffle. It's a good thing I have the money to waste, because I feel like it was a bad purchase in retrospect.

You are running Hogwarts at 1080 ultra no RT. You may think the upscaled image looks better than native 1080, cool, but it's still 1080 not 4K. No way would I have been happy about my $450 card not being able to hold 1080 60 locked, with no RT, 18 months after I bought it.

The upscaling does take some processing to be done, so in terms of performance, it's not the same like a native 1080p.

I would make a new run of the same section, at native 1080p, to highlight this, but the previous run was capped, since I was aiming for as much smoothness as possible and not max performance, so it would be an unfair comparison.

However I did do some tests on Returnal, on the 3060ti, 1080p/dlss and 720p native, at epic settings, since it has a built in benchmark that comes in handy and fsr / dlss options. Here are my results.

Benchmarks

native 720p



then 1080/dlss quality which is rendering at 1280X720



then 1080/fsr quality



So the bench results are:

native 720p = 114fps
1080p dlss = 103 fps
1080p fsr = 111 fps

Dlss has some 10%+ performance hit, so its not the same.

But as for the quality, they are night and day.

Here is native 720p



and here is 1080p dlss quality


Put them in full screen and notice the ferns inside the bubble, how much detailed they are and also the door on the left.

1080p Fsr is also much better than native 720p, but not as good as dlss (stupid camera moved a little)



I will do this test on the 4070ti at 4k, to see how it fairs. But no, it's not the same performance wise, nor quality wise.

 

[BFG10K]

Hilarious to see DF twisting themselves into a pretzel to avoid knocking 8GB too much. Even their own tools show massive stutter with DLSS3 when it runs out of VRAM.

They use the "most gamers have 8GB" argument, so developers are at fault for going over it. But when Turing was just released and was a total minority, DF had no trouble heaping praise on developers using ray tracing @ slideshow performance.

Not to mention the reason we have still have so many 8GB cards is because the GPU monopoly keeps it that way. Nine years after 8GB was first available affordably in consumer space, NV releases a new 8GB GPU in 2023 @ $400. According to DF, that's "the developers fault", LMAO

And finally, the biggest online polls all say the majority of gamers don't give a crap about ray tracing. So which is it, DF? Do we follow the trend of "most gamers" or not?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Hilarious to see DF twisting themselves into a pretzel to avoid knocking 8GB too much. Even their own tools show massive stutter with DLSS3 when it runs out of VRAM.

They use the "most gamers have 8GB" argument, so developers are at fault for going over it. But when Turing was just released and was a total minority, DF had no trouble heaping praise on developers using ray tracing @ slideshow performance.

Not to mention the reason we have still have so many 8GB cards is because the GPU monopoly keeps it that way. Nine years after 8GB was first available affordably in consumer space, NV releases a new 8GB GPU in 2023 @ $400. According to DF, that's "the developers fault", LMAO

And finally, the biggest online polls all say the majority of gamers don't give a crap about ray tracing. So which is it, DF? Do we follow the trend of "most gamers" or not?

I watched the review last night, and was going to comment on some of the same points you just hit on. Rich did everything he could to polish the turd. It was fun watching him squirm right from the start. The lead in being about how everyone else already roasted it; you could see how the script was crafted to immediately put you off your guard, so he could start polishing. As he knew he couldn't go full shill due to what happened to Jay's boyz for doing it. Probably cleared the negative remarks with his handler first, to be certain those sweet greenbacks and exclusive looks aren't jeopardized.

 

[Jaskalas]

Not to mention the reason we have still have so many 8GB cards is because the GPU monopoly keeps it that way. Nine years after 8GB was first available affordably in consumer space, NV releases a new 8GB GPU in 2023 @ $400. According to DF, that's "the developers fault", LMAO

Have you seen some of the game updates / patches?
They appear to be getting new texture packs that don't look like LOD mud while remaining below 8GB.
If they put in the work to support 8GB, then they can actually do a reasonable job of it. Like they have in the past.

And if you are going to launch a product on PC, it may be wise to properly support the vast majority of PC hardware. Having greater than 8GB of VRAM is rarefied territory.

 

[BFG10K]

If they put in the work to support 8GB, then they can actually do a reasonable job of it.

So again I'll ask, who gets to decide when games are allowed to use more than 8GB? Is it you? Or someone else?

Like they have in the past.

Why don't you apply the same standard to other specs from 2014? In 2014 most games called for dual-core CPUs and 4GB system DRAM. Should games in 2023 also be required to support this?

Why is VRAM given special treatment to stay frozen for nine years because a GPU monopoly with bloated profits continues ripping customers off?

And if you are going to launch a product on PC, it may be wise to properly support the vast majority of PC hardware. Having greater than 8GB of VRAM is rarefied territory.

O'rly? You mean like the first ray tracing games that launched when Turing was a drop in the ocean of the GPU market, and almost nothing could run it?

How come developers are allowed to push RT but not high resolution assets which run on anything, but with reduced quality on <=8GB?

 

[Ranulf]

The nvidia VRAM rollercoaster, over two generations.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1663199101423349762

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Have you seen some of the game updates / patches?
They appear to be getting new texture packs that don't look like LOD mud while remaining below 8GB.

That's extra work and adds to cost. We will go from $70 games to even more money real fast, if they have to keep doing it. Quote from a 3D modeling artist -

"the reason most game devs have requirements go up is to reduce the time on the retopology process where you have to reduce poly counts on the model so it is less GPU taxing. By increasing the requirements, you can ship the 3D model with high poly counts straight to the game engine and render them in real time."

We start getting Playstation exclusives and PC peasants that pretend to be master race immediately ruin it. 😂

 

[jpiniero]

The nvidia VRAM rollercoaster, over two generations.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1663199101423349762

I wouldn't be surprised if the 4060 Ti 16 GB gets unlaunched. I feel like they should spiff it with faster GDDR6(X) but without knowing how much more it'd be (x8) it's tough to say if NV would seriously consider it.

"the reason most game devs have requirements go up is to reduce the time on the retopology process where you have to reduce poly counts on the model so it is less GPU taxing. By increasing the requirements, you can ship the 3D model with high poly counts straight to the game engine and render them in real time."

That's the poly count and not the actual texture (?)

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Bring on Battle Mage intel!!!!

 

[DAPUNISHER]

That's the poly count and not the actual texture (?)

I didn't quote the whole post. And I know jack/almost nothing about the topic personally. His point was all of that is done faster the way he described. Retopology takes time, time is money.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Bring on Battle Mage intel!!!!

And it better be Gandalf the White, not that grey dude, he's a scrub.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

And it better be Gandalf the White, not that grey dude, he's a scrub.

Hell I’ll even take Avatar as long as intel brings a dirty trick along.

 

[BFG10K]

16GB 3070 spotted at Computex, made by Gxore. Remains to be seen whether NV locks it out of their drivers.

They wouldn't want it stealing their thunder when the 5xxx series arrives with 64-bit 4GB VRAM @ $5000. And revolutionary "Dee Ell Ess Ess" 4.0, which stores textures in 1 bit black & white format and upscales to color using "aye eye".

Don't tell NVIDIA, Taiwanese company reveals GeForce RTX 3070 16GB GPUs - VideoCardz.com

NVIDIA RTX 3070 with 16GB on display The video from TecLab who are attending Computex shows a very interesting graphics card that shouldn’t actually exist. The RTX 3070 GPU released by NVIDIA has seen many variants, but the only memory configuration that is officially available is 8GB GDDR6...

videocardz.com

 

[BFG10K]

The nvidia VRAM rollercoaster, over two generations.

Don't forget the 2060 12GB. I'll bet that card is faster than the 3070TI / 4060TI in some of the games we've seen in this thread.

 

[igor_kavinski]

16GB 3070 spotted at Computex, made by Gxore. Remains to be seen whether NV locks it out of their drivers.

I hope they wouldn't care at this point. Should help to sell off the last few thousand units of that GPU. 3080 20GB would also be welcome.

 

[Mopetar]

The nvidia VRAM rollercoaster, over two generations.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1663199101423349762

Seems like more of a crazy train to me. After watching that Computex keynote, JHH definitely appears as though he's going off the rails.

 

[AtenRa]

Another good video from Daniel showcasing the impact of Vram in modern games,
RTX3060 12GB vs 7600 8GB , no need to say once more than any card with 8GB Vram in 2023 onwards should not be priced above $250

 

[Mopetar]

Has anyone done more fine-grained testing to see where the cutoff point is at? There aren't a lot of 10 GB cards, but it be nice to know if trying to snag a 3080 at a low price is actually a deal or not.

 

[DeathReborn]

Has anyone done more fine-grained testing to see where the cutoff point is at? There aren't a lot of 10 GB cards, but it be nice to know if trying to snag a 3080 at a low price is actually a deal or not.

I think we need some testing on the RX 6700 10GB as that isn't much faster than the 7600 but has the extra 2GB & a 160bit interface.

 

[moonbogg]

So again I'll ask, who gets to decide when games are allowed to use more than 8GB? Is it you? Or someone else?


Why don't you apply the same standard to other specs from 2014? In 2014 most games called for dual-core CPUs and 4GB system DRAM. Should games in 2023 also be required to support this?

Why is VRAM given special treatment to stay frozen for nine years because a GPU monopoly with bloated profits continues ripping customers off?

O'rly? You mean like the first ray tracing games that launched when Turing was a drop in the ocean of the GPU market, and almost nothing could run it?

How come developers are allowed to push RT but not high resolution assets which run on anything, but with reduced quality on <=8GB?

I just noticed something. You're one of the few real ones left around here, forged in the fires of the golden age.

 

[Jaskalas]

So again I'll ask, who gets to decide when games are allowed to use more than 8GB? Is it you? Or someone else?

Do not pretend it is one or the other. Low, Med, High, Ultra settings are not mutually exclusive.
D-GPU market is small enough as is, do not argue that devs should only properly support 19% of that market. (PCs above 8GB VRAM).

(19% already, that 3060 is doing some heavy lifting.)

 

[CakeMonster]

I just noticed something. You're one of the few real ones left around here, forged in the fires of the golden age.

That might be a Dragonforce song.

 

[blckgrffn]

Do not pretend it is one or the other. Low, Med, High, Ultra settings are not mutually exclusive.
D-GPU market is small enough as is, do not argue that devs should only properly support 19% of that market. (PCs above 8GB VRAM).

(19% already, that 3060 is doing some heavy lifting.)

Which games are struggling at low/medium texture settings with 8GB of ram?

I mean, they can look ugly but run fine, right? Isn't that what you expect when you turn the settings down?

Current consoles with more than 8GB of vram flip that ratio, I am sure. We've already heard how much developers hate the Series S. I like the price of the Series S but I think the digital PS5 was the right choice long term.