8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

[BFG10K]

8GB

• Dying Light 2, Battlefield 2042, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, Starfield, Forza Horizon 5, Horizon Forbidden West, Alan Wake 2, The Last of Us, Tekken 8, FC 24, Detroit Become Human, Death Stranding, Alone in The Dark, Overwatch 2
  3060 12GB higher 1% low than 4060 8GB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIfz57wmywg
• Cyberpunk 2077, Diablo 4, Hogwarts Legacy, Horizon Zero Dawn, Microsoft Flight Sim 2020, Witcher 3, Watch Dogs Legion skip to 4K + DLSS for each game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiaWWd0xGc
• Ratchet & Clank, Plague Tale Requiem, Last Of Us, Jedi Survivor, Far Cry 6, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Cyberpunk 2077 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr3MckDxMfE&pp=ygUTMTZnYiB2cyA4Z2IgNDA2MCB0aQ==
• Far Cry 6, Godfall, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Forspoken, Doom Eternal, Watchdogs Legion https://youtu.be/fJc--C01P90?t=268
• Last Of Us, Resident Evil 4, Callisto Protocol, Plague Tale Requiem, Halo Infinite, Forspoken https://youtu.be/2_Y3E631ro8?t=429
• Last Of Us, Hogwarts Legacy, Resident Evil 4, Forspoken, Plague Tale Requiem, Callisto Protocol https://youtu.be/Rh7kFgHe21k?t=288
• Hogwarts Legacy, Last Of Us, Spider Man Remastered, Doom Eternal, Forza Horizon 5 https://youtu.be/R943CbDTq_s?t=1473
• Horizon Forbidden West 4060 has issues @ 1080p + DLSS unless you switch off frame generation and reduce settings to high https://youtu.be/3AyKvI23VGw?t=233
• Horizon Forbidden West 3070 requires reducing textures 2 notches https://youtu.be/xTwEGy6HHKo?t=351
• Deathloop https://youtu.be/lu_XHyO-6zY?t=918
• Ghost Recon Breakpoint https://youtu.be/iUGppQVpXzU?t=529
• Resident Evil 2 https://youtu.be/Aa-gsgRjMII?t=796
• Talos Principle 2 https://youtu.be/K6FATQAuEwI?t=337
• Spider Man Remastered https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1060
• Witcher 3 https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1240

Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.

Spoiler

Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:

Spoiler

Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

Spoiler

10GB / 12GB

• Plague Tale Requiem 3080 10GB tanks if you enable ray tracing, would be fast enough if it had more VRAM because if you stop moving, the framerate stabilizes to >60FPS https://youtu.be/7zjrMww3fAc?t=496
• Hogwarts Legacy 4K + RT, 4060Ti 16GB is faster than 4070 12GB https://youtu.be/X-h_R488Mq8?t=191

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.

Spoiler

1. It's the player's fault.
2. It's the reviewer's fault.
3. It's the developer's fault.
4. It's AMD's fault.
5. It's the game's fault.
6. It's the driver's fault.
7. It's a system configuration issue.
8. Wrong settings were tested.
9. Wrong area was tested.
10. Wrong games were tested.
11. 4K is irrelevant.
12. Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
13. Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
15. It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
16. It's an anomaly.
17. It's a console port.
18. It's a conspiracy against NV.
19. 8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
21. Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.

According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!

 

[Hitman928]

There's a not at the bottom of the table in the playstation blog post. Seems like they are reevaluating the recommended GPUs on the AMD side for whatever reason. Could be related to DLSS/FSR support as they mention upscalers (they specifically call out DLSS) should be used with RT features on.

** Details regarding ray-tracing support for AMD GPUs coming soon

 

[igor_kavinski]

@jpiniero failed to mention this at the end of that PS blog post:

Details regarding ray-tracing support for AMD GPUs coming soon

They must be working on some patch to improve AMD performance (hybrid raytracing most likely).

 

[BFG10K]

As expected, even 128 bit is starved with 8GB VRAM. And yet again we see 8GB isn't enough for 1080p.

4060TI is literally the same card, VRAM's the only difference. So we have a $400 GPU released in 2023 using a cutting edge 4nm process that targets 720p.

"The more you buy, the more you save [on textures not rendered]" - Jensen 2023.

 

[MrTeal]

"The more you buy, the more you save [on textures not rendered]" - Jensen 2023.

You effectively can't rely on GPU review roundups anymore. Just looking at the results from Forspoken, Halo Infinite, etc the FPS results for the 8GB 4060 Ti really are pretty good. How can you really compare them just with a number when at the same settings one is rendering bushes and the other is rendering seaweed.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

You effectively can't rely on GPU review roundups anymore.

It's been that way for years. I've gotten a lot of push back for deriding it; most people fear change. Being able to browse nice, neat, bar charts, and use them to bolster your position in discussion, is SOP.

Around 2018 was when I started to really notice that my experiences with CPUs and GPUs wasn't syncing with the reviewer sphere anymore.

On topic: I thought Steve wrote an excellent script for this one. He laid out his case in detail, backed it up with the video evidence, and stuck the landing, with his conclusion. Only the most deluded would take exception to or argue with his reasoning.

 

[Ranulf]

I think we're just in a period again where the performance is so scattered all over the place with varying standards that you just have to go with what works best for the software, games you use the most. Just get enough info to know if you're not getting a lemon, a loser of a product for a bad price.

 

[kondziowy]

I'm shocked that going 50-100MB over 8GB can result in dropping from 100fps to 10-30fps!! (calisto protocol / 700MB in plague tale). That puts to rest the mythical "nvidia vram management superiority" fairy tales. More vram is always the answer.

 

[jpiniero]

I'm shocked that going 50-100MB over 8GB can result in dropping from 100fps to 10-30fps!! (calisto protocol / 700MB in plague tale). That puts to rest the mythical "nvidia vram management superiority" fairy tales. More vram is always the answer.

Or making the loading faster by using DS+GPU...

There's no fixing Halo Infinite though. The seaweed bug is funny.

 

[Mopetar]

That puts to rest the mythical "nvidia vram management superiority" fairy tales. More vram is always the answer.

I think there was some historical truth to that, but AMD essentially caught up with them. If NVidia still had a major advantage there you'd be hearing about it. Since they don't, no point in talking about it. That stuff is old hat. Let's talk about ray tracing and frame generation instead.

 

[jpiniero]

nVidia posted this Rift Apart loading demo. Looks close enough to what the PS5 can do at least. There is that one stutter but that can happen on the PS5 too.

 

[jpiniero]

Ooh, this is potentially spicy. Nixxes has removed the AMD GPUs from the Ray Tracing Specifications.

Before, "Amazing Ray Tracing" included a 6800 XT and "Ultimate Ray Tracing" included a 7900 XTX. Perhaps reviewers have told them that the frame rate wasn't high enough on said AMD GPUs?

Now they've disabled RT on AMD GPUs entirely.

https://support.insomniac.games/hc/en-us/articles/17812815585549-PC-performance-tuning

 

[igor_kavinski]

Now they've disabled RT on AMD GPUs entirely.

You left something out. AGAIN.

Ray-tracing on AMD GPUs is disabled at launch. We are working closely with AMD to enable support as soon as possible.

I'm thinking AMD is the one that asked them to disable support until they can get the raytraced fps out of the gutter.

 

[kondziowy]

No DLSS in Starfield, whole internet cries. No RT on AMD cards in Ratchet (RTX technology masterpiece), removed last second, whole internet stays quiet.

 

[igor_kavinski]

No DLSS in Starfield, whole internet cries. No RT on AMD cards in Ratchet (RTX technology masterpiece), removed last second, whole internet stays quiet.

AMD card owners don't cry at every little thing

 

[kondziowy]

Let's just say I find it highly suspicious I hope nobody is blocking anything

 

[jpiniero]

I'm thinking AMD is the one that asked them to disable support until they can get the raytraced fps out of the gutter.

Either that or it's crashing/looks real bad.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

Now they've disabled RT on AMD GPUs entirely.

https://support.insomniac.games/hc/en-us/articles/17812815585549-PC-performance-tuning

Definitely not worth buying at launch then if you have an AMD card, as the RT looks awesome on this game. Very surprised to see this since the PS5 has something like a 6700 non XT and the game runs a rock solid 60 fps in the performance RT mode with dynamic resolution that varies between 1080p and 1440p.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

First game to use XeGTAO. Yet no mention of ARC in the system specs chart. Hopefully RT features work on ARC at launch.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Definitely not worth buying at launch then if you have an AMD card, as the RT looks awesome on this game. Very surprised to see this since the PS5 has something like a 6700 non XT and the game runs a rock solid 60 fps in the performance RT mode with dynamic resolution that varies between 1080p and 1440p.

You're surprised a PC port with heavy Nvidia involvement, that worked great on AMD console hardware, is nerfed on AMD PC hardware?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

No DLSS in Starfield, whole internet cries. No RT on AMD cards in Ratchet (RTX technology masterpiece), removed last second, whole internet stays quiet.

The key to the smear campaign was that DLSS is TEH BESTEST!

Where as with RT, the more effects used, the worse it is on AMD GPUs. I mean how many of us bought Radeon for its ray tracing support? I certainly didn't. I never buy AAA games at full price either, so by the time I play this game, it'll all be sorted out.

Nor am I looking to pump my stock price, or getting free hardware and swag for pimping AMD. So why rage about it?

 

[Leeea]

No DLSS in Starfield, whole internet cries. No RT on AMD cards in Ratchet (RTX technology masterpiece), removed last second, whole internet stays quiet.

Perhaps it is the lack of a paid advertising campaign to complain about the one company locking out their competitors technology.

I suspect nvidia fans never really cared. And in this case, the vice versa is also true.

 

[jpiniero]

Either that or it's crashing/looks real bad.

Looks like it is a crashing issue, from AMD's driver notes.

AMD Radeon Software Adrenalin 23.7.2 - VideoCardz.com

Added support for AMD Ryzen 7040 “Phoenix” APUs. Updated build: Radeon RX 7900 GRE support added as well

videocardz.com

 

[igor_kavinski]

Looks like it is a crashing issue, from AMD's driver notes.

AMD Radeon Software Adrenalin 23.7.2 - VideoCardz.com

Added support for AMD Ryzen 7040 “Phoenix” APUs. Updated build: Radeon RX 7900 GRE support added as well

videocardz.com

Looks like only RDNA3 is impacted.

 

[Spjut]

It sucks for RDNA2 owners if they're unable to activate raytracing because it's universally disabled for AMD even though it's only RDNA3 that's impacted

 

[jpiniero]

Here's DF's video on Rift Apart.