Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

[Eug]

M1
5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LP-DDR4
16 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 12 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache
(Apple claims the 4 high-effiency cores alone perform like a dual-core Intel MacBook Air)

8-core iGPU (but there is a 7-core variant, likely with one inactive core)
128 execution units
Up to 24576 concurrent threads
2.6 Teraflops
82 Gigatexels/s
41 gigapixels/s

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Products:
$999 ($899 edu) 13" MacBook Air (fanless) - 18 hour video playback battery life
$699 Mac mini (with fan)
$1299 ($1199 edu) 13" MacBook Pro (with fan) - 20 hour video playback battery life

Memory options 8 GB and 16 GB. No 32 GB option (unless you go Intel).

It should be noted that the M1 chip in these three Macs is the same (aside from GPU core number). Basically, Apple is taking the same approach which these chips as they do the iPhones and iPads. Just one SKU (excluding the X variants), which is the same across all iDevices (aside from maybe slight clock speed differences occasionally).

EDIT:



M1 Pro 8-core CPU (6+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 16-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 24-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 32-core GPU

M1 Pro and M1 Max discussion here:

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M1 Ultra discussion here:

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M2 discussion here:

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Second Generation 5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LPDDR5, up to 24 GB and 100 GB/s
20 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 16 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache

10-core iGPU (but there is an 8-core variant)
3.6 Teraflops

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Hardware acceleration for 8K h.264, h.264, ProRes

M3 Family discussion here:

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M4 Family discussion here:

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[Heartbreaker]

Performance is small increase.
But I am surprised they announced the laptops and that the base model is still 8GB

Yeah, I was hoping it was triple channel with 12GB/24GB, but it looks like it's still dual channel, and still has 8GB and 16GB options.

 

[JoeRambo]

So basically Apple ran into ST performance wall for this architecture. M1 at least had excuse of X64 transition and extra work to enable it. With M2 stagnation is now obvious.

 

[Heartbreaker]

M2 Laptops also limited to 1 external display just like M1.

 

[Doug S]

So basically Apple ran into ST performance wall for this architecture. M1 at least had excuse of X64 transition and extra work to enable it. With M2 stagnation is now obvious.

If they used the A15 core that wouldn't be surprising as it would have only the smallish gain realized from A14->A15.

 

[Doug S]

Sounds like N4. Apple called it "Second Generation 5 nm process technology".

I took "second generation 5nm process" to mean N5P, since the M1 was on N5.

 

[Racan]

So is the loss of engineering talent (Nuvia) now working for Qualcomm starting to show?

 

[DrMrLordX]

So is the loss of engineering talent (Nuvia) now working for Qualcomm starting to show?

When you look at what Intel and AMD can manage generation-over-generation, it's not that bad. But it certainly isn't in line with what they were getting years ago.

 

[gdansk]

So is the loss of engineering talent (Nuvia) now working for Qualcomm starting to show?

I don't think so. It would be considered a decent generation for either AMD or Intel. But, unlike Zen 3, Apple used a updated process, bigger die and apparently more power to deliver it.

 

[jpiniero]

I don't think so. It would be considered a decent generation for either AMD or Intel. But, unlike Zen 3, Apple used a updated process, bigger die and apparently more power to deliver it.

Apple does quote the same battery life as the M1 Air. It does have a 5% bigger battery however.

 

[repoman27]

Yeah, I was hoping it was triple channel with 12GB/24GB, but it looks like it's still dual channel, and still has 8GB and 16GB options.

M1 was 8-channel (128-bit) LPDDR4X-4266 for 68.27 GB/s memory bandwidth. 8 or 16 GB configs.
M2 is 8-channel (128-bit) LPDDR5-6400 for 102.4 GB/s memory bandwidth. 8, 16, or 24 GB configs.

So 50% increase in both memory bandwidth and max capacity gen over gen.

 

[Eug]

The rumour mill is strong for an M2 launch at WWDC, in the form of a new MacBook Air design in a rainbow of colours (although one rumour monger is claiming it will still be M1). The rumour mill is not strong for a Mac Pro though, with the claim being it's at best a sneak peek, but with no real launch yet.

So, the rumour mill was partially right. MacBook Air with M2, 13.6" notched screen, and more colours, but not a rainbow. And no Mac Pro.

Some were suggesting fall 2022 for the Mac Pro and Mac mini (and bigger iMac?) while others were saying early 2023.

As for the M1 MacBook Air, it did stick around, but just as the old model.

They didn't increase the core count and only an 18% improvement. Which is a little disappointing given that it's been 18 months.

An 18% improvement doesn't seem THAT bad, does it? I mean it's still on 5 nm. In the old days, +18% would have been pretty decent.

Anyhow, I'm just happy to see the 24 GB support. This bodes well for the M2 Mac mini, although I'm still wondering about the number of USB ports. A "high end" Mac mini with 24 GB but the same number of ports as the current M1 model would be disappointing. I would hope to see as many ports in a high end Mac mini as the current Intel model.

I'm thinking one scenario is they could release a low end M2 model with limited ports and 8-core GPU, then a high end M2 model with more ports, 10-core GPU, and more storage for more money.

I don't know if they'd keep the M1 around though as a cheaper option, but as mentioned, that's what they did for the M1 MacBook Air.

 

[repoman27]

More likely N5P if they're using Avalanche cores both of you

Yeah, exactly. M2 is 4x Blizzard efficiency cores and 4x Avalanche performance cores on TSMC N5P. With M2 being introduced before September, that's really all anyone should have been expecting. N3 isn't ready yet, and neither are whatever cores are in the A16 which will be on N4.



A15 cores for comparison:

 

[repoman27]

M2 Laptops also limited to 1 external display just like M1.

This is a bummer. I was really hoping to see improvements on the display controller and I/O fronts. Seemed like such low hanging fruit. Looks like same SSD as previous generation, too. There is one additional PCIe Gen4 lane though, so 4x Gen4 x1 for peripherals, plus 2x Gen4 lanes dedicated to the storage controller.

 

[Eug]

40% faster video editing vs M1:

Testing conducted by Apple in May 2022 using preproduction MacBook Air systems with Apple M2, 8-core CPU, 10-core GPU, and 24GB of RAM, as well as production MacBook Air systems with Apple M1, 8-core CPU, 8-core GPU, and 16GB of RAM, all configured with 2TB SSD, as well as production 1.6GHz dual-core Intel Core i5-based MacBook Air systems with Intel UHD Graphics 617, 16GB of RAM, and 1TB SSD. Final Cut Pro 10.6.2 tested using a complex 2-minute project with 4K ProRes 422 media. Performance tests are conducted using specific computer systems and reflect the approximate performance of MacBook Air.

Note though this includes some hardware acceleration.

 

[Ajay]

If they used the A15 core that wouldn't be surprising as it would have only the smallish gain realized from A14->A15.

Yeah, for a minor tweak to the N5 process, the A15 is doing well, IMHO. A process shrink and update uArch for A16 will likely yield much better gains. TSMC's troublesome N3 node was particularly problematic for Apple's silicon ambitions.

An 18% improvement doesn't seem THAT bad, does it? I mean it's still on 5 nm. In the old days, +18% would have been pretty decent.

Anyhow, I'm just happy to see the 24 GB support. This bodes well for the M2 Mac mini, although I'm still wondering about the number of USB ports. A "high end" Mac mini with 24 GB but the same number of ports as the current M1 model would be disappointing. I would hope to see as many ports in a high end Mac mini as the current Intel model.

I'm thinking one scenario is they could release a low end M2 model with limited ports and 8-core GPU, then a high end M2 model with more ports, 10-core GPU, and more storage for more money.

I don't know if they'd keep the M1 around though as a cheaper option, but as mentioned, that's what they did for the M1 MacBook Air.

18% is good, given the process limitations Apple was facing (and they are probably still recovering a bit form the brain drain that hit their semiconductor group. Folks are just being salty.
I did want to see info on the M2 Pro today. That would really make the Mac Mini a viable lower cost option to the Mac Studio.

 

[Roland00Address]

M2 Laptops also limited to 1 external display just like M1.

Grumbles about power saving tech even if I adore power saving tech the other times. The lord giveth and the lord taketh away my displays. Grumbles in Job

 

[igor_kavinski]

What's with giving the M2 Air bigger screen, better 1080p cam and spatial speakers and not making these enhancements available in M2 MBP 13???

 

[Heartbreaker]

18% is good, given the process limitations Apple was facing (and they are probably still recovering a bit form the brain drain that hit their semiconductor group. Folks are just being salty.
I did want to see info on the M2 Pro today. That would really make the Mac Mini a viable lower cost option to the Mac Studio.

18% is multi-core though. Much like A15, the single core is likely too negligible to mention. Gains are probably more from the efficiency cores.

 

[trivik12]

it will cost $400 to upgrade from 8GB to 24GB. I am sure Apple fans wont have an issue, but this is ridiculous considering its soldered and cannot be upgraded after the fact.

Plus it will cost $400 to upgrade SSD to 1TB as well. It does get expensive if you want better spec.

 

[Eug]

it will cost $400 to upgrade from 8GB to 24GB. I am sure Apple fans wont have an issue, but this is ridiculous considering its soldered and cannot be upgraded after the fact.

Plus it will cost $400 to upgrade SSD to 1TB as well. It does get expensive if you want better spec.

Yeah, but Apple is competing against itself, and it costs $400 to upgrade from 16 GB to 32 GB on the MacBook Pro M1 Pro.

$1799 - M2 MacBook Air 13.6", 512 GB SSD, 24 GB RAM
$2399 - M1 Pro MacBook Pro 14.2", 512 GB SSD, 32 GB RAM

That's a $600 difference, or a 33% price premium. In that context, the MBA's memory upgrade doesn't seem quite as expensive. No, 24 GB isn't the same thing as 32 GB. However, I suspect there is that middle tier of users who don't need 32 GB, but want more than 16 GB.

 

[Roland00Address]

it will cost $400 to upgrade from 8GB to 24GB. I am sure Apple fans wont have an issue, but this is ridiculous considering its soldered and cannot be upgraded after the fact.

Plus it will cost $400 to upgrade SSD to 1TB as well. It does get expensive if you want better spec.

I would not complain about a $400 dollar price increase if the M2 was $800 to $900 like the M1 goes on sale for.

But no the M1 at Everyday Price is $1000 - $1, and the M2 is $1200 - $1. So yeah I am complaining the ram prices is $400+$400 more than what I want to pay. I would be fine with $1200 total but $1600 I am like Nah I will wait for sales / refurbished / wait for next year's model 🤔😆

 

[repoman27]

18% is multi-core though. Much like A15, the single core is likely too negligible to mention. Gains are probably more from the efficiency cores.

Oh, please don't reiterate silly internet nonsense. Some of the most reliable numbers available for A14 vs A15 performance differences are Anandtech's SPEC 2017 numbers.

For single-threaded, the Avalanche performance cores in the A15 demonstrated a 12.89% performance increase with a 8.07% higher maximum clock speed while using 13.87% less power than the Firestorm cores in the A14. The Blizzard efficiency cores in the A15 offered a 24.51% performance increase with a 10.59% higher maximum clock speed while using 3.33% more power than the Icestorm cores in the A14. Both chips were also using LPDDR4X-4266 with a 64-bit interface, and the process difference is only TSMC N5 to N5P.

If Intel or AMD achieved similar gains, would anyone consider it "too negligible to mention"?

 

[repoman27]

Yeah, for a minor tweak to the N5 process, the A15 is doing well, IMHO. A process shrink and update uArch for A16 will likely yield much better gains. TSMC's troublesome N3 node was particularly problematic for Apple's silicon ambitions.

N4 is still N5 process family—it's just a 6% optical shrink plus additional enhancements.

Apple is intimately aware of TSMC's progress in terms of process. They knew full well over two years ago that products based on N3 wouldn't be shipping in 2022, and the A16 was designed practically from the outset with N4 and a September 2022 release as the target. If Apple's silicon team knew all along that the A series chips wouldn't move to N3 before September 2023, do you really think they thought a bigger M series sized chip on N3 would happen before then?

Being the most influential customer of the foundry with the best available manufacturing process is not actually a problem for Apple's silicon ambitions.

 

[Eug]

AnandTech's M2 summary, and Apple's marketing images:

apple-announces-m2-soc-apple-silicon-updated-for-2022

 

[Roland00Address]

Has it been confirmed these are Gent A15 cores (Avalanche-performance, Blizzard-efficiency) ?

I assume it to be so, but I haven't had time to do the reading. Just did 75% of the WWDC video in the last hour.