Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

[Eug]

M1
5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LP-DDR4
16 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 12 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache
(Apple claims the 4 high-effiency cores alone perform like a dual-core Intel MacBook Air)

8-core iGPU (but there is a 7-core variant, likely with one inactive core)
128 execution units
Up to 24576 concurrent threads
2.6 Teraflops
82 Gigatexels/s
41 gigapixels/s

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Products:
$999 ($899 edu) 13" MacBook Air (fanless) - 18 hour video playback battery life
$699 Mac mini (with fan)
$1299 ($1199 edu) 13" MacBook Pro (with fan) - 20 hour video playback battery life

Memory options 8 GB and 16 GB. No 32 GB option (unless you go Intel).

It should be noted that the M1 chip in these three Macs is the same (aside from GPU core number). Basically, Apple is taking the same approach which these chips as they do the iPhones and iPads. Just one SKU (excluding the X variants), which is the same across all iDevices (aside from maybe slight clock speed differences occasionally).

EDIT:



M1 Pro 8-core CPU (6+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 16-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 24-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 32-core GPU

M1 Pro and M1 Max discussion here:

Page 78 - Discussion - Apple Silicon SoC thread

Page 78 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

forums.anandtech.com

M1 Ultra discussion here:

Page 109 - Discussion - Apple Silicon SoC thread

Page 109 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

forums.anandtech.com

M2 discussion here:

Page 127 - Discussion - Apple Silicon SoC thread

Page 127 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

forums.anandtech.com

Second Generation 5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LPDDR5, up to 24 GB and 100 GB/s
20 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 16 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache

10-core iGPU (but there is an 8-core variant)
3.6 Teraflops

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Hardware acceleration for 8K h.264, h.264, ProRes

M3 Family discussion here:

Page 215 - Discussion - Apple Silicon SoC thread

Page 215 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

forums.anandtech.com

M4 Family discussion here:

Page 263 - Discussion - Apple Silicon SoC thread

Page 263 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

forums.anandtech.com

 

[dr1337]

What alternate universe are you living in where the iPhone (or any other smartphone) is providing that??

Its probably every 3 years that the iphone isn't directly incremented in its model, ie 3gs, 5s, Xs... . It might not be a "breakthrough device" to your or my (common) terms, but in apple terms it often is is. Macs, in apple terms, are iterated upon much more slowly than their mobile devices, and IMO its all due to volume of sales. I think they of all companies know where to invest and where to stay relaxed.

 

[Eug]

Yes and all but the last few years of that data was due to their dependence on Intel, and was one of the big reasons they wanted to take it in house. Once they did there are some obvious growing pains ramping up their teams to be able to design all the Apple Silicon stuff in addition to the iPhone SoCs they were already doing, they were affected by covid / WFH delays, departures of team members who last fully participated in the M1 generation, and TSMC's N3 troubles.

So let's revisit this in a few years and see how they're doing. I'll bet they get this stuff on a more regular cadence now that they've finally got full control of their hardware and brought Apple Silicon's onto a schedule (judging by the release of all three members of the M3 family shortly after the iPhone SoC that used the core) So long as TSMC doesn't stumble again, the Mac is going to see much more regular scheduling rather than a hodgepodge of releases at any random time like they've been forced to do in the past.

We shall see, but Apple skipped many, many generations of Intel chips, even when they were effectively drop-in replacements.

20 mil Macs + 60-100 mil iPads per year.

Its decent enough volume for the Mx series.

The vast majority of those iPads are A series. In fact, I still don’t quite understand why the iPad Air is M series. I guess it will make more sense once the iPad Pros go OLED while the Airs stay LCD, from a product segmentation point of view.

 

[Mopetar]

But 18 months makes no sense for a product cycle for Macs, since there are specific timings the market prefers like "back to school" and "Christmas". There's a very good reason Apple introduces new iPhones at the same time every year, and those reasons apply to other products. Something like a Mac Pro is probably largely independent of that due to who is buying it, but for the lower end (sub $2000 in Apple world) of the product lines where the large majority of units will be sold their marketing unit would likely overwhelmingly desire the same release time every year. Meaning either 12 or 24 months, not 18.

I don't think Apple really needs to have specific products always ready as long as they have something. They don't seem like a company that lets their marketing department lead them around either and they have an extensive history of not refreshing some product line for several years.

They still have a Mac to sell you for back to school whether it was released 12 months ago or 12 minutes ago, and most of those buyers just want to buy the Mac without caring too much about the specs. Even if it's a year old model at the time of purchase, it's still going to last all 4 years of school and probably several more after that, because it's a Mac and will have good build quality and support.

Apple has enough product categories that they can always have something new out for important periods. One year they can have a new MacBook Pro ready for the back to school. The next year it might be a new MacBook Air instead. Even if they don't, an 18 month schedule still aligns to a year often enough to target specific times. I think the back to school date is probably more important than Christmas as phones, tablets, their ear pods, and other products they make are going to be far more likely Christmas gifts than a laptop.

We also have their actual history, albeit only 3 data points. That those line up better with an 18-month schedule than either a 12 or 24 month schedule suggests that neither of those are specific targets or that their execution on those targets is terrible. Drawing parallels to the mobile market which is different for a number of reasons isn't going to make for a useful comparison.

I don't think they have a fixed target for their M-series chips, but loosely planning on 18 months with some give and take is more reasonable of an assumption than 12 or 24. As I said earlier, if you believe that's what Apple has been targeting you'd have to believe that they have some of the worst execution in the industry, while somehow at the same time having really great execution on their other products.

 

[Eug]

I don't think Apple really needs to have specific products always ready as long as they have something. They don't seem like a company that lets their marketing department lead them around either and they have an extensive history of not refreshing some product line for several years.

They still have a Mac to sell you for back to school whether it was released 12 months ago or 12 minutes ago, and most of those buyers just want to buy the Mac without caring too much about the specs. Even if it's a year old model at the time of purchase, it's still going to last all 4 years of school and probably several more after that, because it's a Mac and will have good build quality and support.

Apple has enough product categories that they can always have something new out for important periods. One year they can have a new MacBook Pro ready for the back to school. The next year it might be a new MacBook Air instead. Even if they don't, an 18 month schedule still aligns to a year often enough to target specific times. I think the back to school date is probably more important than Christmas as phones, tablets, their ear pods, and other products they make are going to be far more likely Christmas gifts than a laptop.

Speaking of Back-To-School:

My next "computer" will be an iPad of some sort, as I have given away my A10X iPad Pro 10.5" with 4 GB RAM to my kid, and I am currently struggling to use an A8X iPad Air 2 with 2 GB RAM in the interim. This decade-old machine just doesn't cut it anymore.

Here's hoping for an 11"+ iPad Pro with OLED and landscape camera to be released this spring. I will buy when the Back-To-School promotion starts, and hopefully this iPad Pro will be included in the promotion. I'd likely pick up an Apple keyboard for it too.

BTW, I find interesting that Apple released the M3 iMac in October 2023, just a couple of weeks after the end of the 2023 Back-To-School promotion. Also, they did NOT update the higher selling MacBook Air to M3 at the same time. I suspect they will release the M3 MacBook Air this spring, just in time for the 2024 Back-To-School promotion, and will keep the iMac on M3. There will likely be no M4 consumer Mac this year IMO. I'm not sure about M4 series pro Macs either this year either. I'm guessing early 2025... closer to a roughly 1.5 year cycle.

P.S. An overhaul of the Mac Pro is due.

 

[FlameTail]

P.S. An overhaul of the Mac Pro is due.

The M Extreme chip (4× M Max) is long overdue.

 

[Mopetar]

It is long overdue, but the market for those is probably small enough (and used to the long span between releases) that they don't really mind. As long as it comes out every four to five years that's good enough for them to have a replacement around the time it becomes economical to buy one.

Apple is its own biggest competitor in some markets or market segments, so their release schedule doesn't need to be so tight as other companies.

 

[FlameTail]

Can someone explain the massive PPC difference between A14 and M1? How is this possible? They are using the same Firestorm P-core.

 

[Doug S]

Can someone explain the massive PPC difference between A14 and M1? How is this possible? They are using the same Firestorm P-core.

Well first of all I would check/validate those GB6 scores - i.e. rather than trusting those nicely rounded off numbers that are clearly just sort of estimates go get your own numbers and validate that the numbers you use aren't outliers in some way (they are where most results seem to cluster) and that they are using the exact same version of GB6.

Obviously the best way would be working with someone who owns that model of iPhone and Mac, but you could get them from the GB6 website it would just take more legwork.

 

[Viknet]

Can someone explain the massive PPC difference between A14 and M1? How is this possible? They are using the same Firestorm P-core.

Different cache layout, increased memory bandwidth, less aggressive power management.

 

[Eug]

M3 MacBook Air released, and it finally supports two external monitors (if the lid is closed).

Meanwhile, I’ve been using my m3 for 7 years already.

 

[FlameTail]

M3 MacBook Air released

OOOH YEAH

and it finally supports two external monitors (if the lid is closed).

That makes sense. I wonder why Apple didn't do this before.

The Mx chips has two display engines. When the laptop display is on, one engine drives that, which leaves one engine to drive an external monitor.

When the laptop display is off, both display engines are available to power two external monitors.

 

[Glo.]

M3 MacBook Air released, and it finally supports two external monitors (if the lid is closed).

Meanwhile, I’ve been using my m3 for 7 years already.

I thought that you will show this M3:

 

[Tigerick]

Average release interval of the iMac is 17 months.
Average release interval of the Mac mini is 23 months.
Average release interval of the 13” MacBook Air is 15 months.
Average release interval of the regular iPad is 20 months.
Average release interval of the iPad Air is also 20 months.

As for the Mac Pro, it’s 31 months.

People always looking for past pattern to speculate when will Apple release new model. Well, as shown with MBA 15" release today (half a year later after M2 model), there won't have any pattern. We should be looking for any technology leaps in the future to speculate better. And here comes my speculate table from upcoming LPDDR6 page:



If Apple is prepared to launch M5 notebook with LPDDR6 (first mover like LPDDR5), then we should be expecting M5 notebook coming in Q4 2025. Based on timings, Apple will release M4 by end of this year, that's mean Apple will release M-series in yearly cadence in the following years...

 

[eek2121]

Wish they would update the iPad mini.

 

[Eug]

People always looking for past pattern to speculate when will Apple release new model. Well, as shown with MBA 15" release today (half a year later after M2 model), there won't have any pattern.

However, the M2 13" MacBook Air 13" came out in 2022. The 15" is an anomaly since it's an expansion of a pre-existing M2 line.

 

[Tigerick]

However, the M2 13" MacBook Air 13" came out in 2022. The 15" is an anomaly since it's an expansion of a pre-existing M2 line.

M2 based MBA13" did release in WWDC 2022, the interval is about one and a half years. How about I speculate that both MBA 13"& 15" are going to get upgrade one year later?

 

[Eug]

M2 based MBA13" did release in WWDC 2022, the interval is about one and a half years. How about I speculate that both MBA 13"& 15" are going to get upgrade one year later?

Could happen, although I'll go on record to predict that the M4 13" & 15" MBAs will not be updated until WWDC 2025 or summer/fall 2025.

 

[trivik12]

Apple will release MBA with MX CPU in 2035 with 8/256 spec for sure

 

[Eug]

I guess the one minor silver lining is 16 GB is now considered a standard configuration for the MBA, meaning that you should be able to get 16 GB models Amazon or Costco or whatever, alongside the 8 GB models. Previously they were all 8 GB models.

Baby steps.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Baby steps.

Only because of the dumb consumers. Boycott the lower end models and see them scamper to release at least 12GB/512GB minimum spec laptops.

 

[igor_kavinski]

It would be a nice early morning surprise to wake up and find out that M3 CPU is now available in a Lenovo Thinkpad laptop. One can dream.

Soon, that will be a reality with WoA. Die, Apple, die!

 

[okoroezenwa]

Only because of the dumb consumers. Boycott the lower end models and see them scamper to release at least 12GB/512GB minimum spec laptops.

How would this work in practice?

 

[igor_kavinski]

How would this work in practice?

Let that un-upgradable hardware rot on the shelves, unless it's available for $499.

Buy a normal, more capable x86 laptop and put on it a MacOS lookalike Linux distro: https://itsfoss.com/macos-like-linux-distros/

 

[FlameTail]

It would be a nice early morning surprise to wake up and find out that M3 CPU is now available in a Lenovo Thinkpad laptop. One can dream.

Soon, that will be a reality with WoA. Die, Apple, die!

Snapdragon X Elite will be our saviour

 

[FlameTail]

The base M chips only have 2 display engines, meaning that it can only support 2 displays at a time.

Ia this a dealbreaker? How many people use more than 1 external display?