Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

[Eug]

M1
5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LP-DDR4
16 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 12 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache
(Apple claims the 4 high-effiency cores alone perform like a dual-core Intel MacBook Air)

8-core iGPU (but there is a 7-core variant, likely with one inactive core)
128 execution units
Up to 24576 concurrent threads
2.6 Teraflops
82 Gigatexels/s
41 gigapixels/s

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Products:
$999 ($899 edu) 13" MacBook Air (fanless) - 18 hour video playback battery life
$699 Mac mini (with fan)
$1299 ($1199 edu) 13" MacBook Pro (with fan) - 20 hour video playback battery life

Memory options 8 GB and 16 GB. No 32 GB option (unless you go Intel).

It should be noted that the M1 chip in these three Macs is the same (aside from GPU core number). Basically, Apple is taking the same approach which these chips as they do the iPhones and iPads. Just one SKU (excluding the X variants), which is the same across all iDevices (aside from maybe slight clock speed differences occasionally).

EDIT:



M1 Pro 8-core CPU (6+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 16-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 24-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 32-core GPU

M1 Pro and M1 Max discussion here:

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M1 Ultra discussion here:

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M2 discussion here:

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Second Generation 5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LPDDR5, up to 24 GB and 100 GB/s
20 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 16 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache

10-core iGPU (but there is an 8-core variant)
3.6 Teraflops

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Hardware acceleration for 8K h.264, h.264, ProRes

M3 Family discussion here:

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M4 Family discussion here:

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[Thibsie]

Snapdragon X Elite will be our saviour

Yeah, sure...

 

[Thibsie]

View attachment 94864

The base M chips only have 2 display engines, meaning that it can only support 2 displays at a time.

Ia this a dealbreaker? How many people use more than 1 external display?

I would and I do.
Teacher. Need two screens to work correctly, one beamer and one screen to copy beamer output.
Not that hard, Apple. Really.

 

[Thibsie]

People who want three monitors have no room to bitch when they bought an entry level product.

Except when the entry level product is sold at the same price as mid-tier level from other brands.

 

[Thibsie]

Something unusual about this affair:

The laptop lid has to be physically closed to support two external displays.

Why?

Why not simply turn off the internal display, while keeping the lid open?

This has rhe benefit of being able to use the laptop's keyboard/track pad while using the external monitors.

Because Apple knows what's good for you.

 

[Thibsie]

Apple focuses on quality, not quantity.

Apple's display controllers are much more efficient than Intel's.

So even though Apple can drive fewer monitors, they drive it really well.

Marketing koolaid ? C'mon.

 

[Mopetar]

Except when the entry level product is sold at the same price as mid-tier level from other brands.

What's a price equivalent ultrabook (or whatever the general term is for this segment) from some other company that's going to drive three monitors?

You can probably find something that costs $1100 or less that will drive three displays, but it's not going to weigh as little as the Air, have the same long battery life, the quiet operation, etc.

A $700 5 lb. plastic brick that sounds like an outboard motor isn't a MacBook Air replacement.

 

[FlameTail]

Marketing koolaid ? C'mon.

In the Intel Macbooks, plugging in a display would cause the fan to ramp, the CPU to sweat and the battery to tank.

Not the case with Apple Silicoj Macbooks, which is evidence for their superior efficiency.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I dunno about current macs but good quality hasn't always been the case.

I have the M1 Macbook Air that I got used. Didn't power it on for almost a year and now it doesn't turn on anymore. I misplaced the charger that came with it. Tried to charge it with a USB-C charger and the charging light doesn't even come on. I dunno. I might be harboring a dead MBA in my room. I hate that it is metallic. I don't want to touch cold metal during winter. The entire thing is designed to fool people who know nothing about computers. I only got it coz I was pawning my stupid Geforce 3060 Ti and 3080 10GB that I stupidly bought and taking the Macbook instead of the pitiful cash being offered seemed only sensible to me. But now I'm not sure if it was a good decision.

 

[igor_kavinski]

No, just plain MacOS

Not that easy. I wish it was easy though.

 

[Thibsie]

Not that easy. I wish it was easy though.

I do too.
I'm in the process.
See NootedRed if AMD based.

 

[Nothingness]

Because Apple knows what's good for you.

Serious question. If you feel that bad with Apple, why don't you get a PC? Is your institution forcing you to use Mac?

 

[Glo.]

Serious question. If you feel that bad with Apple, why don't you get a PC? Is your institution forcing you to use Mac?

Apple is designing their computers in a way that people who do not understand how computers work, can work with them. "it just works" has a meaning, but also bad side - the lack of ability to work the way YOU want them to work.


I was against this idea, but recently I started to appreciate more, and more this way of thinking, especially - when I start using computers as tools, not just toys. And if you want to use a hammer, for specific job, you do not want to think: "I wonder if it will be able to nail the nails in the coffin?" You want it to just nail the nails into the coffin.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Apple is designing their computers in a way that people who do not understand how computers work, can work with them.

There also isn't a lot of interesting software available for the Mac so you are kinda FORCED to just work and not be able to do much else. So yeah, I agree the Mac is a great productivity booster coz it bores you into making you just work, work, work. Workaholics love it for this reason. You know, the people who ruin life for the rest of us.

 

[Glo.]

There also isn't a lot of interesting software available for the Mac so you are kinda FORCED to just work and not be able to do much else. So yeah, I agree the Mac is a great productivity booster coz it bores you into making you just work, work, work. Workaholics love it for this reason. You know, the people who ruin life for the rest of us.

I can only tell you from my experience.

I am unable to focus on what I am doing on Windows/Linux PC. On Mac/iPad - I can.

 

[igor_kavinski]

On Mac/iPad - I can.

Where is this increased focus phenomenon stemming from? Better UI design or the Reality Distortion Field?

 

[Glo.]

Where is this increased focus phenomenon stemming from? Better UI design or the Reality Distortion Field?

I guess its partially more appealing to me(the UI), but on iPad espcially - focused experience. Nothing apart from the app itself, even if its just a PDF.

Windows has one advantage over MacOS - window tiling. For multitasking on single, large monitor/TV - its brilliant. But the more I am into multimonitor setups, the more I appreciate how "One display-one app/function" works on MacOS.

 

[Thibsie]

Serious question. If you feel that bad with Apple, why don't you get a PC? Is your institution forcing you to use Mac?

I'm mostly a PC guy. I went Apple, tried it, got somewhat burned and then they became so much more an entertainment company than anything computer but so be it.

Apple tries not to apply regulations and will act monopoly as long as they can. Nothing different from Intel or Microsoft of course. Those aren't a thing better (and who knows maybe AMD someday). They will never earn my respect that way.

The reason I need Apple is 'cos of stupid app which only exists on Apple and which does what I (and my colleagues) need so well, I would be even more stupid not to use it.

I love the app, even somewhat quirky sometimes.
I hate having to buy into Apple for this.

I'll add that although my opinion is what it is about Apple, I'd still get AppleTV+ 'cos, well : on that very point they earnt it. What joke is Amazon compared lol.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I love the app, even somewhat quirky sometimes.

Which one?

 

[poke01]

I have the M1 Macbook Air that I got used. Didn't power it on for almost a year and now it doesn't turn on anymore. I misplaced the charger that came with it. Tried to charge it with a USB-C charger and the charging light doesn't even come on. I dunno. I might be harboring a dead MBA in my room. I hate that it is metallic. I don't want to touch cold metal during winter. The entire thing is designed to fool people who know nothing about computers. I only got it coz I was pawning my stupid Geforce 3060 Ti and 3080 10GB that I stupidly bought and taking the Macbook instead of the pitiful cash being offered seemed only sensible to me. But now I'm not sure if it was a good decision.

I seen Macs last 10 years and I seen Macs last less than a year. My last Mac I purchased and kept was the 2019 16” MBP still going strong to this day. I used it every day for university for 3 years straight and it never failed me.

(One time I fully deleted the hard drive even the EFI folder and boot files. So I restored the boot folder thru a macOS virtual machine on a Linux machine. Fun times)

I'm mostly a PC guy. I went Apple, tried it, got somewhat burned and then they became so much more an entertainment company than anything computer but so be it.

Apple tries not to apply regulations and will act monopoly as long as they can. Nothing different from Intel or Microsoft of course. Those aren't a thing better (and who knows maybe AMD someday). They will never earn my respect that way.

The reason I need Apple is 'cos of stupid app which only exists on Apple and which does what I (and my colleagues) need so well, I would be even more stupid not to use it.

I love the app, even somewhat quirky sometimes.
I hate having to buy into Apple for this.

I'll add that although my opinion is what it is about Apple, I'd still get AppleTV+ 'cos, well : on that very point they earnt it. What joke is Amazon compared lol.

Apple does many things well. Their excellent SoCs, quality of their screens for productions and updates/optimising. I would say they are still a computer company in the sense that they core focus is computers. Phones, tablets and PC are computers but they are branching out.

They also do dumb crap like abhorrent SSD/RAM pricing, not letting go of the App Store monopoly on iOS but they should also be regulated.

 

[FlameTail]

Also Macbooks have legendary quality speakers, which for some reason no Windows Laptop can match....

 

[Glo.]

They also do dumb crap like abhorrent SSD/RAM pricing, not letting go of the App Store monopoly on iOS but they should also be regulated.

Its not dumb.

For Apple, of korz.

 

[dr1337]

"it just works" has a meaning, but also bad side - the lack of ability to work the way YOU want them to work.


I was against this idea, but recently I started to appreciate more, and more this way of thinking, especially - when I start using computers as tools, not just toys. And if you want to use a hammer, for specific job, you do not want to think: "I wonder if it will be able to nail the nails in the coffin?" You want it to just nail the nails into the coffin.

So how do these two statements work with each other? Macs are a hammer but only the type of hammer good for nails? And if "you" want to use the hammer for anything else then that's 'their' problem? Sounds like circular logic to me. People see what they want to see I guess. Everyone in this thread is getting derailed into devices and software meanwhile ignoring the fact that hardware doesn't exist in a vacuum.



Old macs have features new macs don't, but new macs supposedly have better speakers than any windows laptop. Then I wonder to myself why more people don't mention the fact that every macbook since retina apple is scaled res and won't let you use any custom resolutions without first downloading some 3rd party software from the app store. And in the same vein why nobody talks about brand new windows laptops halving abysmal battery life even compared to intel macs...

It all just sounds like marketing gaff. No real meat to any of this discussion. People are sounding like they don't care about apple silicon but only their ecosystem, and that's fine. But doesn't that also kinda mean that apple silicon literally doesn't matter? Like in a world where apple were to still be using intel chips, would any of the posters above me have a different opinion?

I just cannot get into any of this brand oriented thinking. New macs might be one type of hammer but they're far from the only 'apple hammer' that a person can buy. Theres so much more going on within all of these devices that reducing a laptop down to something like a hammer is even absurd to an extent. Have you people never even considered owning more than one laptop and giving each one its own purpose? Just like how 99% of carpenters have many hammers usually not from any particular brand? Or do consumers on these forums only live on one new device at a time? Always selling/recycling old ones?


Just imagine a world where Apple sells the M chips to other OEMs, like perhaps to samsung and/or microsoft. How would that change the way consumers pick devices?

 

[Doug S]

So how do these two statements work with each other? Macs are a hammer but only the type of hammer good for nails? And if "you" want to use the hammer for anything else then that's 'their' problem? Sounds like circular logic to me. People see what they want to see I guess. Everyone in this thread is getting derailed into devices and software meanwhile ignoring the fact that hardware doesn't exist in a vacuum.

You're torturing a poor metaphor. If you don't like the single tool analogy think of it as the difference between the "complete" set of tools you can buy at Lowes for $99 that will allow the average person to accomplish basically any simple task around the home or in their car, versus the tool collections owned by people who gut and renovate their kitchen and master bath or install a lift kit on their truck.

That $99 set will do what the overwhelming majority of people need/want from their tools which is very simple home repairs or car repairs. Think stuff like fixing a toilet that keeps running or replacing cabinet hardware, or swapping a burned out taillight in their car...that sort of thing. They might KNOW how to do more, but you can't e.g. change your oil if you don't own an oil filter wrench and jacks that can safely hold up the front end of your car. They would rather pay the professionals when their garbage disposal craps out or they need new brake pads, even though those if not something they already know how to do are pretty simple to learn with the help of a handy friend or failing that, Youtube.

Its the same way with computers and phones. And even though Macs and iPhones are more "limited" in some ways most people use Windows and Androids in exactly the same way. The typical PC user isn't some sort of power user tweaking registry settings or fooling with memory timings in BIOS, nor is the typical Android user taking advantage of stuff it can do that iPhones can't like sideloading .apks they downloaded from the web. The idea some have that Apple products are for dumb people who don't know how to use their computer/phone and Androids for tech people is laughable, the number of people using Windows/Android any differently than Mac/iPhone users is not all that large.

Its also not some sort of cookie cutter thing where you are either an Apple or non Apple person. I've used Linux on my PC exclusively since 1997. I've never owned a Windows PC in my life. I've also used iPhones since the 3gs, and never owned an Android. I used to tinker with my car a lot when I was younger, now I view it more as a hammer or that $99 Lowes tool set so I don't do anything to it other than adding fuel. Well I did get OBDeleven for it so I can tinker with some of the settings, but that's only because it was clearly programmed by people in India or China who have never driven the actual car, or at least that's the ony way I can account for some of the incredibly dumb way some things work by default.

 

[soresu]

I'm mostly a PC guy. I went Apple, tried it, got somewhat burned and then they became so much more an entertainment company than anything computer but so be it.

Apple tries not to apply regulations and will act monopoly as long as they can. Nothing different from Intel or Microsoft of course. Those aren't a thing better (and who knows maybe AMD someday). They will never earn my respect that way.

The reason I need Apple is 'cos of stupid app which only exists on Apple and which does what I (and my colleagues) need so well, I would be even more stupid not to use it.

I love the app, even somewhat quirky sometimes.
I hate having to buy into Apple for this.

I'll add that although my opinion is what it is about Apple, I'd still get AppleTV+ 'cos, well : on that very point they earnt it. What joke is Amazon compared lol.

I'm not sure if it says something more positive about this app that you would buy Apple to use it, or if it says something more negative about their competition that they are so far from parity to this app that you would buy Apple 😅

 

[Glo.]

Have you people never even considered owning more than one laptop and giving each one its own purpose? Just like how 99% of carpenters have many hammers usually not from any particular brand? Or do consumers on these forums only live on one new device at a time? Always selling/recycling old ones?

Thats exactly how I build my worspace/workstation.

One device for specific purpose, which is also why I started appreciating multimonitor setups over one large screen.

So how do these two statements work with each other? Macs are a hammer but only the type of hammer good for nails? And if "you" want to use the hammer for anything else then that's 'their' problem? Sounds like circular logic to me. People see what they want to see I guess. Everyone in this thread is getting derailed into devices and software meanwhile ignoring the fact that hardware doesn't exist in a vacuum.

What I meant about a tool is not specifically about only nailing the nails into the coffin, and nothing else. What I mean is that its supposed to work. JUST work.