Discussion Qualcomm Snapdragon Thread

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Thibsie

Senior member
Apr 25, 2017
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I fully expect Apple to negate the existence of WoA, they are past the need for making thing like Bootcamp and it works very well virtualized.

I also fully expect Open Core to try and manage with time, booting MacOS on Qualcomm stuff.
And of course Apple will try to block them.
 

poke01

Senior member
Mar 8, 2022
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I fully expect Apple to negate the existence of WoA, they are past the need for making thing like Bootcamp and it works very well virtualized.

I also fully expect Open Core to try and manage with time, booting MacOS on Qualcomm stuff.
And of course Apple will try to block them.
There no chance Qualcomm X elite would even work with arm64 macOS. X Elite does not support Metal and macOS has no drivers for X Elite GPU.
 
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Thibsie

Senior member
Apr 25, 2017
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We'll see. Non metal GPUs were made to work (to a point). As for drivers, we'll see, indeed.
 

MarkizSchnitzel

Senior member
Nov 10, 2013
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lol, of course it's a "strategic move". If you would publicly communicate your product's failure to compete in the market it's supposed to compete in before the product even launches you fail at your job. Doesn't change that Qualcomm will have to fight quite the uphill battle to compete in the PC space.
Wouldn't this be in more like MBA space? Chrome + notetaking and office suite with optionally light casual games?
If there is a Snapdragon with adequate performance, and much better battery life, and packed in a 13-14 good quality screen relatively thin and good quality casing, at <1000€ it would be a very wide market for it.
I guess I might be grossly underestimating the price they want this to go for-
 
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Doug S

Platinum Member
Feb 8, 2020
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We'll see. Non metal GPUs were made to work (to a point). As for drivers, we'll see, indeed.

Given that AMD was the only GPU Apple used for the last 8 years or whatever of x86 Macs, and AMD supported Metal on the GPUs used in x86 Macs I'm guessing AMD included whatever hardware was needed to support Metal in all their GPUs (or all but the low end ones Apple never used) but only declared support for it in the ones shipped in Macs. What would be the point of leaving it out in some, since it would save basically no die area and that would remove flexibility for Apple to change plans?

Regardless of Metal support the far far far more difficult hurdle is the lack of drivers on ARM macOS for any third party GPUs AT ALL. So even if you bought an AMD GPU that had Metal support and plug it in on an non-Apple ARM PC, how are you going to get macOS to use it? It will be 100% impossible as far as native booting. The only shot would be running macOS in a VM.
 

FlameTail

Platinum Member
Dec 15, 2021
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Snapdragon X Elite vs Core Ultra 7 155H running Stable Diffusion.

1st prompt:
X Elite: 7 seconds
155H: 22 seconds

2nd prompt:

X Elite: 10 images in 12 seconds
155H: 1 image in 12 seconds.
 

moinmoin

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2017
4,967
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Wouldn't this be in more like MBA space? Chrome + notetaking and office suite with optionally light casual games?
If there is a Snapdragon with adequate performance, and much better battery life, and packed in a 13-14 good quality screen relatively thin and good quality casing, at <1000€ it would be a very wide market for it.
I guess I might be grossly underestimating the price they want this to go for-
Yeah, the price they are going to ask for it is going to make or break it in that space.

And I expect the price to be too high to be relevant in that space. X Elite in WoA laptops will be more powerful chips than what QC offers for mobile phones, so in that regard it's logical that they consider the laptop chips premium. As such we have to expect them to be priced at a premium as well, not at a lower margin than their phone chips.
 

MarkizSchnitzel

Senior member
Nov 10, 2013
408
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Why would they have to have same or better margins here?
Just pride, or would they have some market polls to back it up?

I don't know how big a market is for expensive laptops that have poor native app support and poor gaming.

I still have my fingers crossed to get one of decent quality for <1000€ around black friday or xmas 2024. Something like an Envy X360 13.
 

FlameTail

Platinum Member
Dec 15, 2021
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I expect that X Elite will be found in $1000-$1500 laptops, and X Plus will be found in $750-$1250 laptops. Their may be outliers of course, but I expect this is where rhe majority of them would belong

*mentioned prices are the base prices/starting prices
 

FlameTail

Platinum Member
Dec 15, 2021
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As such we have to expect them to be priced at a premium as well, not at a lower margin than their phone chips.

Qualcomm already charges fat margins for their phone chips. OEM price for 8 Gen 2 was $160, and for 8 Gen 3 it is $200.

They are able to do that especially because they come bundled with their 5G chips.

Sure, Qualcomm has to find a way to pay off the R&D cost of their Oryon architecture development. I expect they'll do it mainly using their smartphone SoCs which ship in huge volumes. Also not paying ARM the royalties for Cortex, will also offset some costs.
 
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moinmoin

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2017
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Why would they have to have same or better margins here?
Qualcomm is a public business. Performance in different markets is being qualified by the margins achieved there. If margins are worse in the PC market the blowback from shareholders will be huge as economically it means Qualcomm should have invested in markets that offer higher margins to it (like phones as @FlameTail correctly writes) instead and by not doing so wasted (valuable shareholder) money.
 

Tigerick

Senior member
Apr 1, 2022
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According to Golden Pig Upgrade, X Elite's performance is superb even on non-native x86 software. This SoC going to live for very long and Lenovo planning to launch 3 different models using this SoC.

If the delay of Pegasus is related to X Elite G2 (maybe due to porting to N3P process), then we should be expecting two years lifespan out of X-Elite G1.
 
Last edited:

FlameTail

Platinum Member
Dec 15, 2021
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According to Golden Pig Upgrade, X Elite's performance is superb even on non-native x86 software. This SoC going to live for very long and Lenovo planning to launch 3 different models using this SoC.

If the delay of Pegasus is related to X Elite G2 (maybe due to porting to N3P process), then we should be expecting two years lifespan out of X-Elite G1.

I hope X Elite G2 launches at end of 2025 (Announced at 2025 Snapdragon Summit and released shortly after). That would be 2 years from X Elite G1 announcement and 1.5 years from X Elite G1 release.

Previously I was expecting X Elite G2 to be announced at this year's Snapdragon Summit, but according to the timeline and how things are working out, that's seemingly not happening.
 

Tup3x

Senior member
Dec 31, 2016
971
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According to Golden Pig Upgrade, X Elite's performance is superb even on non-native x86 software. This SoC going to live for very long and Lenovo planning to launch 3 different models using this SoC.

If the delay of Pegasus is related to X Elite G2 (maybe due to porting to N3P process), then we should be expecting two years lifespan out of X-Elite G1.
Here's the thing... even if the performance is halved when running x86 software, it would beat or match AMD Renoir based laptops (I have AMD Ryzen 7 PRO 4750U based work laptops). That's plenty of performance for most tasks.
 

soresu

Platinum Member
Dec 19, 2014
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Here's the thing... even if the performance is halved when running x86 software, it would beat or match AMD Renoir based laptops (I have AMD Ryzen 7 PRO 4750U based work laptops). That's plenty of performance for most tasks.
Fine, if perf is the only issue and not perf/watt for which native execution is still easily the ideal situation in a battery constrained mobile device.
 

FlameTail

Platinum Member
Dec 15, 2021
2,356
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Snapdragon® X Elite
X1E80100
X1E78100
X1E76100
X1E84100

Snapdragon® X Plus
X1P64100
X1P62100
X1P56100

So there are two SKUs: X Elite and X Plus, and they in turn have several SKUs of them?
 
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