Discussion RDNA 2 6nm Refresh

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GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
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- 6nm would bring 18% higher density (so more dies per wafer) + some performance or efficiency improvements as AMD chooses to tune the dies (Performance for desktop/Efficiency for laptops I suppose).

My understanding is that 6nm is a clean shrink of 7nm without the complexities and overhead of a full node shrink.

Wonder if AMD will end up running a couple simultaneous lines: 7nm for their 6000 series mainstream and bulk cards, 6nm for their mid to top end 6000 series S cards, and eventually 5nm for their RDNA 3 top end parts. Shift everything down a tier when 4/3nm whatever show up.
 

maddogmcgee

Senior member
Apr 20, 2015
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That's great that you earn that much but I can't imagine there are many people with a discretionary budget of 120k plus a year. A thousand for just a GPU is a lot for many (the vast majority?) of people. I count myself and my wife as middle class with reasonable incomes and my budget for personal hobbies is about 150 a week AUD. I would assume total sales of $US1000 plus cards would be very small in normal times.
 
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beginner99

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2009
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$1,000 is less than 10% of my monthly discretionary income
Anyone with a decent middle to upper class income can afford to buy a decent high end GPU every few years.

Which implies you make a lot more than 10k per month. say 15k. That is 180k per year which according to this site puts you in the top 7% of income. So no, this is strictly not a middle class income. This is top of the notch income and I think you are a but delusional how much average people earn. Median is 55k. So half of people make less than that.
 
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eek2121

Platinum Member
Aug 2, 2005
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Which implies you make a lot more than 10k per month. say 15k. That is 180k per year which according to this site puts you in the top 7% of income. So no, this is strictly not a middle class income. This is top of the notch income and I think you are a but delusional how much average people earn. Median is 55k. So half of people make less than that.

I never said I was middle class. I was pointing out that not everyone is broke. Even according to that site, 16.5% of people in the US make more than 100k. 100k isn't much if married with children, but without children, or without marriage, plenty of folks have enough to drop 1-2k on a GPU every 2-3 years.
 

Insert_Nickname

Diamond Member
May 6, 2012
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I was pointing out that not everyone is broke.

With current energy pricing, we just feel broke.

For myself, it's just annoying. I'd rather spend the money on something else, but it's not like I'm going bankrupt. I do know some who are in a real fix however, because they're using natural gas for home heating.

(This isn't a rant or anything, or targeted at you in particular. Just a comment on the world currently)
 

beginner99

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Jun 2, 2009
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With current energy pricing, we just feel broke.

For myself, it's just annoying. I'd rather spend the money on something else, but it's not like I'm going bankrupt. I do know some who are in a real fix however, because they're using natural gas for home heating.

Yeah spending $1000 on a mid-range gpu just seems like to much. Rather just invest that.

We have mixed heating of natural gas and heat pump that takes heat out of the concrete walls (something called mass absorber, concrete contains a ton of heat especially when the sun shines on it) an of course this happens on the outer layer before the insulation. Anyway having good insulation helps keeping costs manageable also because you can get away with lower temps inside.
 

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
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If the card prices keep increasing at this rate they might actually be a decent investment. My last few cards (980, 1080ti) all sold for about the same price I got them for, and I got 2-3 years of use out of them. I expect my 3090 to fetch at least the $1600 I paid whenever I upgrade.

Speaking of heating, I turn down the temperature in my apartment when gaming, since these cards pump out enough heat to make the room noticeably warmer after a while.
 
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Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
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Between the drop in crypto prices and the upcoming move to PoS for ETH, I suspect that miners are becoming more conservative with their ROI calculations.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,400
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Between the drop in crypto prices and the upcoming move to PoS for ETH, I suspect that miners are becoming more conservative with their ROI calculations.
You'de be surprised how many miners, even experienced ones, are like, "YOLO! Mining Forever! Keep acquiring GPUs!".

Though, I think some of the more cautious miners, are holding off on buying new cards, waiting for prices to fall.
 

eek2121

Platinum Member
Aug 2, 2005
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With current energy pricing, we just feel broke.

For myself, it's just annoying. I'd rather spend the money on something else, but it's not like I'm going bankrupt. I do know some who are in a real fix however, because they're using natural gas for home heating.

(This isn't a rant or anything, or targeted at you in particular. Just a comment on the world currently)
My parents make less than $35,000/year combined. They are in their 60s. They took up mining roughly 2 years ago to earn some extra cash.
Yeah spending $1000 on a mid-range gpu just seems like to much. Rather just invest that.

We have mixed heating of natural gas and heat pump that takes heat out of the concrete walls (something called mass absorber, concrete contains a ton of heat especially when the sun shines on it) an of course this happens on the outer layer before the insulation. Anyway having good insulation helps keeping costs manageable also because you can get away with lower temps inside.
Current ETH prices are over $3,100. ETH has dipped under $2,500 3 times in the past year. If you bought the dip and sold high every time (I did 2 out of 3 of those times) you would have nearly doubled your investment. If you were holding 2 years ago, selling today would have landed you a cool 780% return.

Sure, if you mine there are electrical costs involved, however, in many areas of the world, including several parts of the US, electricity is dirt cheap.

Conventional investments cannot touch the returns of what crypto has done in the past.

Don't get me wrong, I want crypto to die, though not for "I want a gaming GPU" type of reason, but rather, "humans are killing the planet". That being said, I still mine, others still drive gasoline powered vehicles, the world as a whole still runs on dirty and/or nonrenewable energy sources.
You'de be surprised how many miners, even experienced ones, are like, "YOLO! Mining Forever! Keep acquiring GPUs!".

Though, I think some of the more cautious miners, are holding off on buying new cards, waiting for prices to fall.

Why would they be? For me, if I bought a 6900XT tomorrow, and the market crashed right after, worst case scenario is I'm out 1 GPU. My other GPUs have made dump trucks full of money, so even if I bought 10 new GPUs I technically wouldn't "be out" anything, but rather, I'd have a couple thousand less in profit. Realistically, mining is going to be profitable for several more months, if not throughout 2022. My electricity cost is $0.08 per kw/h btw, even cheaper than that thanks to being offsetted by solar, and I'm not a "pro" miner. Most of my crypto was purchased.
 
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Insert_Nickname

Diamond Member
May 6, 2012
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Sure, if you mine there are electrical costs involved, however, in many areas of the world, including several parts of the US, electricity is dirt cheap.

...

My electricity cost is $0.08 per kw/h btw, even cheaper than that thanks to being offsetted by solar, and I'm not a "pro" miner. Most of my crypto was purchased.

Be glad of that. Here we're paying $0.53 (3.5DKK) on average per KWh. Spikes (in December) have been upwards of $1.06 (6.97DKK) per KWh. I really wish I was exaggerating, but I'm not. You don't want to know what natural gas prices (they've risen 491%, and no, that isn't a typo) are in Europe currently.

Mining simply isn't profitable with that kind of pricing.
 
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RnR_au

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Jun 6, 2021
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GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
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Is RDNA 2 really that memory bandwidth limited that having faster RAM will actually appreciably (10% or more) improve performance?

Or is this going to be just another lowest of the low effort price adjustment refresh?
 

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
6,240
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Is RDNA 2 really that memory bandwidth limited that having faster RAM will actually appreciably (10% or more) improve performance?

Or is this going to be just another lowest of the low effort price adjustment refresh?

Many RDNA 2 designs have narrow memory busses. This was done because they have the onboard cache, so they didn't need a super wide bus. But this also means faster memory will make a bigger improvement than on cards with a wider bus.

There are some cases where the cache is not able to make up for that bus speed.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
15,618
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GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
6,933
7,347
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Many RDNA 2 designs have narrow memory busses. This was done because they have the onboard cache, so they didn't need a super wide bus. But this also means faster memory will make a bigger improvement than on cards with a wider bus.

There are some cases where the cache is not able to make up for that bus speed.

- I get that part, but do we have any real world data that increasing memory clocks improves performance for RDNA 2 cards?

A lot of what I'm finding suggests RDNA 2 scales pretty poorly from memory OC, suggesting faster ram isn't really going to make a huge difference... or perhaps only make a difference at "the next highest tier" of resolution than the card's original intended res (6650 will perform better at 1440, 6750 will perform better at 4K, and 6950 will perform better at 4K and higher) where the cards run out of IC.
 
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Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
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I just posted above where videocarz said N6. Is this BS?

Some of them are N6 per the chart on their page. It looks like higher end cards remained on N7?

- I get that part, but do we have any real world data that increasing memory clocks improves performance for RDNA 2 cards?

A lot of what I'm finding suggests RDNA 2 scales pretty poorly from memory OC, suggesting faster ram isn't really going to make a huge difference... or perhaps only make a difference at "the next highest tier" of resolution than the card's original intended res (6650 will perform better at 1440, 6750 will perform better at 4K, and 6950 will perform better at 4K and higher) where the cards run out of IC.

Yeah, I think it will only be in specific use cases. Certainly not an across the board bump.
 
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Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
15,618
7,948
136
Some of them are N6 per the chart on their page. It looks like higher end cards remained on N7?
Yeah, that's what I took from it. Makes me kind of wonder if AMD will be releasing the high end RDNA3 GPUs first. Or, they just want a more affordable mid-range compared to RDNA3.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,686
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Yeah, that's what I took from it. Makes me kind of wonder if AMD will be releasing the high end RDNA3 GPUs first. Or, they just want a more affordable mid-range compared to RDNA3.

The rumors are saying there's only the one RDNA3 high end monolithic part and then the chiplet ones above it. There won't be mid range and lower RDNA3 parts, probally because AMD was worried about a mining crash and figured that the existing RDNA2 would work just fine. Maybe AMD will do it eventually.
 
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