Question ROG Strix LC III 360 ARG AIO What should the pump speed be?

candasulas

Member
Sep 30, 2020
31
1
41
Hello everyone;

I'm using Asus ROG Strix LC III 360 ARGB Liquid Cooling with my 7900X3D processor and ROG Strix B650E-E motherboard.

I was previously using the 1st generation of this model. And when using it, I always used it in DC mode and at full speed with the Pump speed setting.

Now, in this new model, the Pump speed technical document states that it operates in the range of 800-2800RPM. And when I do Calibration from the motherboard's QFAN menu, it manually configures the pump speed to operate between 2600 and 2800. There are also Silent/Normal/Turbo options.

What adjustment do you recommend I make for the pump speed? Many people recommend using a Constant speed on the internet. Some people also say that using the processor at full speed when it is not under load is unnecessary and will shorten the working life of the pump.

What do you think is the best setting for me to make?
I would be very happy if you could give me information about this.
 

Paperdoc

Platinum Member
Aug 17, 2006
2,307
279
126
You mis-read the AIO system's specs. It is the RAD FANS that operate in the range 800 - 2800 RPM. The design of this system, like most, is that the PUMP should operate ALWAYS at full speed (NOT specified in the system spec sheet).

For MOST AIO systems the best setting for the PUMP is always full speed. CONTROL of the CPU temperature is done only by manipulating the RAD FAN speeds. To get this to work, you should connect the PUMP power cable to the AIO_PUMP header, and the RAD FAN cable (using the supplied Splitter) to your CPU_FAN header. Configure these two headers as follows:
CPU_FAN to Normal or Standard Profile
Mode to PWM, not Automatic or Voltage or DC
IF there is a choice, do NOT allow the fans to stop
IF there is a choice, ensure the FAILURE warning is Enabled

AIO_PUMP header the same EXCEPT that there is likely no Profile choice - this header does NOT attempt to alter the pump speed.

When set up this way the Pump will run full speed all the time and its speed signal will be monitored for NO speed, indicating failure. IF that ever happens you will get a prominent on-screen warning, followed shortly thereafter by a complete system shut-down to prevent CPU damage from NO cooling.

The Rad Fans' speeds will be controlled by the CPU_FAN header according to the actual temperature measured by a sensor inside the CPU chip, and the speed of ONE of them also will be monitored for failure. However, the header cannot monitor the speed signals of ALL of those rad fans, so from time to time YOU should look and verify they all still are working.

Under normal circumstances the noise from the PUMP is really minimal. Actually, if you do hear noise from that, it usually indicates a problem like lost fluid and air bubbles. Regarding pump lifetime, is it MUCH more common for the system's life to be limited by things like dirt build-up or fluid loss that impede fluid flow, and NOT due to wearing out of the pump.
 
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Paperdoc

Platinum Member
Aug 17, 2006
2,307
279
126
BoomerD (above) is correct of course about that Arctic Freezer AIO system. In it the PUMP speed does change according to the PWM signal fed from the CPU_FAN header. The details say it starts at a lower speed but at PWM signals of 45% or higher the pump is running at full speed always. This strategy is not common among other AIO systems, but IS what that one does. OP does not have this system.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
62,946
11,334
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BoomerD (above) is correct of course about that Arctic Freezer AIO system. In it the PUMP speed does change according to the PWM signal fed from the CPU_FAN header. The details say it starts at a lower speed but at PWM signals of 45% or higher the pump is running at full speed always. This strategy is not common among other AIO systems, but IS what that one does. OP does not have this system.

I don't know the ASUS coolers...they never impressed me, but seems like, if they're plugged into the pump header on the movo and that's set for PWM in BIOS then it SHOULD operate on variable speed co trol.
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
20,846
3,190
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Most pumps run on PWM, so depending on how your motherboard setup the cpu header, it can go on either voltage draw / cpu load value / or temperature on how to ramp the PWM.
 

Paperdoc

Platinum Member
Aug 17, 2006
2,307
279
126
BoomerD posted. "I don't know the ASUS coolers...they never impressed me, but seems like, if they're plugged into the pump header on the mobo and that's set for PWM in BIOS then it SHOULD operate on variable speed control."

Here are the details of why I advise SOME people (depends on what mobo headers they have) to plug the PUMP into the CPU_FAN header AND make sure to set that header to PWM Mode. It uses a "trick" or quirk of the new PWM design versus older.

Background: the classic 3-pin fan is a DC motor whose speed can be controlled only by altering the voltage of its power supply. Power is by Pin #2 of the header (Pin #1 is Ground), varying from 12 VDC for full speed down to about 5 VDC for minimum speed without stalling. In the 4-pin (PWM style) new fan design, the header signals are as similar as possible to the older design to ensure market acceptability during their introduction. Pins 1 and 3 (speed signal from fan to header) are unchanged. Pin #2 is changed to be +12 VDC always. Pin #4 carries the new PWM signal. The fan motor contains a small chip that modulates the flow of current from the fixed 12 VDC supply line through the windings To reduce the fan speed to whatever that PWM signal requires. (The PWM signal is basically a "% of Full Speed" signal.)

A 4-pin male mobo header can be configured to send out signals in either form. If it is operating in the older Voltage Control Mode (aka DC Mode) the pins supply Ground on Pin #1, a Voltage varying on Pin #2, and it receives back from the fan the speed signal pulse train on Pin #3. Pin #4 has no signal on it. If the header is set to PWM Mode, then Pins 1 and 3 are unchanged. Pin #2 sends out +12 VDC always, and Pin #4 sends the PWM signal. NOTE that this METHOD of sending signals is separate from the setting of the header PROFILE, which is the strategy for deciding what speed the fan SHOULD operate at, depending on a temperature sensor or on some other choice of fixed or custom fan speed.

If the fan type matches the Mode setting of the header, all works as expected. If you mis-match, this is the result. A 3-pin fan receiving PWM Mode signals gets a fixed 12 VDC supply from Pin #2 and gets no signal from pin #4 - it has no line for that. But it also has no special chip, so it cannot modify current flow. So it always runs full speed. If a 4-pin fan is receives older Voltage Control Mode signals, it gets no PWM signal from Pin #4 so its chip cannot modify current flow. BUT the power supply from Pin #2 is a VARYING Voltage so its speed IS controlled just as that of a 3-pin fan. This is not ideal for such a fan design, but it does work. This design yields the best results to simplify introducing the new system to a market full of older fan control designs. If you mix up the fan type and header type, you get either lots of cooling with no control, or fully-controlled cooling.

Next factor: failure. On most mobos all fan headers will monitor the speed signal coming back from the fan for NO signal (sometimes, for a low speed) indicating fan FAILURE. That propmpts an on-screen warning so the user can take action. On many mobos for the CPU_FAN header specifically the actions are more agressive. After a short delay the entire system is shut down without waiting for the temp sensor inside the CPU chip to show high temperatures. This is to protect the CPU from rapid overheating and permanent damage with NO cooling. On many such mobos, the system ALSO will refuse to boot up if there is NO speed signal at the CPU_FAN header immedately on start-up. In the case of an AIO system, of the two elements involved, the PUMP is the more critical on failure. NO pump action means NO heat removeal from the CPU and rapid overheating. On the other hand, if the pump has not failed but one or more rad fans has failed, the temperature rise in the CPU chip will be slower and a different over-temperature protection system will reduce CPU speed to reduce heat generation, and may later shut down completely if the temp continues to rise above a limit. Unfortunately, no mobo manual ever appears to provide details of these protection systems. Further, they never make it clear whether or not other headers like CPU_OPT and AIO_PUMP do the same process.

Now to the case of an AIO system which requires power AND control AND Failure Monitoring of a PUMP and of RAD FANS. IF the mobo has separate headers designed for those functions, that is how it should be done. But some mobos do NOT have a way to control both such headers based specifically on the Temperture Sensor inside the CPU chip, which most certainly IS how the RAD FANS should be done, so those fans need that header. On the other hand, that may be the only header that does the drastic response to FAILURE, so the PUMP needs to be connected to CPU_FAN. Dilemma!

The solution is the Quirk of the results of MIS-match. When necessary, one can use a simple Splitter to connect BOTH the PUMP and all of the RAD FANS to the CPU_FAN header. This is becasue for MOST AIO systems the PUMP is wired just like a 3-pin older fan becasue it is NOT intended to have its speed controlled. So when that unit is conneced to the PWM Mode signals for a header, it runs full speed all the time as intended. But the RAD FANS connected to the SAME set of signals DO respond to the PWM control signal and DO have their speed controlled according to the temperature sensor inside the CPU chip.

There are TWO important items the user MUST do to get this to work. First, when connecting to a Splitter, that unit will send back to the host header the speed of only ONE device, and in this case that MUST be the PUMP speed to monitor for failure. So the user must identify the Splitter's only output connector able to relay the speed signal and connect the PUMP there. This does have the side-effect that the header can NOT monitor for failure any of the RAD FANS, so the user needs to check them from time to time.

The other is a MODE configuration setting in BIOS Setup for the CPU_FAN header. It is essential that this header output signals in the newer PWM Mode, so that option must be set. Many such headers now have an option for Automatic Configuration of Mode and this must NOT be used for this case. In that Mode what happens at every boot-up is that the header starts in PWM Mode and notes the initial "fan" speed. It then sends out a PWM signal for slower speed and checks the result. If the speed did NOT reduce, it concludes that this must be an older Voltage Control Mode (3-pin) "fan" and changes its MODE to that. Now a PUMP will do exactly that (NOT reduce its speed) so the header WILL change toVoltage Control Mode so it CAN reduce PUMP speed, and that is exactly what we do NOT want. So the MODE must be set to PWM.
 

candasulas

Member
Sep 30, 2020
31
1
41
You mis-read the AIO system's specs. It is the RAD FANS that operate in the range 800 - 2800 RPM. The design of this system, like most, is that the PUMP should operate ALWAYS at full speed (NOT specified in the system spec sheet).

For MOST AIO systems the best setting for the PUMP is always full speed. CONTROL of the CPU temperature is done only by manipulating the RAD FAN speeds. To get this to work, you should connect the PUMP power cable to the AIO_PUMP header, and the RAD FAN cable (using the supplied Splitter) to your CPU_FAN header. Configure these two headers as follows:
CPU_FAN to Normal or Standard Profile
Mode to PWM, not Automatic or Voltage or DC
IF there is a choice, do NOT allow the fans to stop
IF there is a choice, ensure the FAILURE warning is Enabled

AIO_PUMP header the same EXCEPT that there is likely no Profile choice - this header does NOT attempt to alter the pump speed.

When set up this way the Pump will run full speed all the time and its speed signal will be monitored for NO speed, indicating failure. IF that ever happens you will get a prominent on-screen warning, followed shortly thereafter by a complete system shut-down to prevent CPU damage from NO cooling.

The Rad Fans' speeds will be controlled by the CPU_FAN header according to the actual temperature measured by a sensor inside the CPU chip, and the speed of ONE of them also will be monitored for failure. However, the header cannot monitor the speed signals of ALL of those rad fans, so from time to time YOU should look and verify they all still are working.

Under normal circumstances the noise from the PUMP is really minimal. Actually, if you do hear noise from that, it usually indicates a problem like lost fluid and air bubbles. Regarding pump lifetime, is it MUCH more common for the system's life to be limited by things like dirt build-up or fluid loss that impede fluid flow, and NOT due to wearing out of the pump.
No, I didn't read it wrong. The pump has variable speed. On the technical information page of the product;

Pump Solution: 7th V2 gen Asetek pump
Engine Speed: 800 - 2,800 +/- 10% RPM

Fan: ROG STRIX AF-12S ARGB FAN
- Size: 3 x Fan Slots (120mm)
- Dimension: 120 x 120 x 25 mm
- Speed: 800 - 2200 RPM ± 10% (0 RPM Support)
- Static Pressure: 3.92 mmH2O
- Air Flow: 70.38 CFM
- Noise: 36 dB(A)
- Control Mode: PWM/ DC

It gives information for pumps and fans. I have already connected the pump input to the AIO_Pump socket. After connecting the Pump and Fans, I made Calibration from the QFAN section and it optimizes the Pump to operate between 2500-2800 RPM and sets it in PWM mode. (When connected to AIO_Pump Socket). In other words, it does not put it in DC mode and set it to a constant speed.

I was previously using the 1st generation of this liquid cooling, which is LC 360. It was then setting it to a constant speed. I think this model adjusts its speed in PWM mode because the pump speed is variable. That's why I wasn't sure and wanted to ask.

Because, as I mentioned on the product page, it says 800-2800RPM range.
 
Last edited:

candasulas

Member
Sep 30, 2020
31
1
41
That might depend on the individual pump...I have the Arctic Freezer II, 280mm, and the pump is indeed variable speed.



The speed of the pump seems variable. Technical documentation says it is in the range of 800-2800 RPM.

That's why I wasn't sure. Should I run it at a constant speed? Or should I run it by making a curve like the Fan curve?

I hesitated about this.
 

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candasulas

Member
Sep 30, 2020
31
1
41
BoomerD posted. "I don't know the ASUS coolers...they never impressed me, but seems like, if they're plugged into the pump header on the mobo and that's set for PWM in BIOS then it SHOULD operate on variable speed control."

Here are the details of why I advise SOME people (depends on what mobo headers they have) to plug the PUMP into the CPU_FAN header AND make sure to set that header to PWM Mode. It uses a "trick" or quirk of the new PWM design versus older.

Background: the classic 3-pin fan is a DC motor whose speed can be controlled only by altering the voltage of its power supply. Power is by Pin #2 of the header (Pin #1 is Ground), varying from 12 VDC for full speed down to about 5 VDC for minimum speed without stalling. In the 4-pin (PWM style) new fan design, the header signals are as similar as possible to the older design to ensure market acceptability during their introduction. Pins 1 and 3 (speed signal from fan to header) are unchanged. Pin #2 is changed to be +12 VDC always. Pin #4 carries the new PWM signal. The fan motor contains a small chip that modulates the flow of current from the fixed 12 VDC supply line through the windings To reduce the fan speed to whatever that PWM signal requires. (The PWM signal is basically a "% of Full Speed" signal.)

A 4-pin male mobo header can be configured to send out signals in either form. If it is operating in the older Voltage Control Mode (aka DC Mode) the pins supply Ground on Pin #1, a Voltage varying on Pin #2, and it receives back from the fan the speed signal pulse train on Pin #3. Pin #4 has no signal on it. If the header is set to PWM Mode, then Pins 1 and 3 are unchanged. Pin #2 sends out +12 VDC always, and Pin #4 sends the PWM signal. NOTE that this METHOD of sending signals is separate from the setting of the header PROFILE, which is the strategy for deciding what speed the fan SHOULD operate at, depending on a temperature sensor or on some other choice of fixed or custom fan speed.

If the fan type matches the Mode setting of the header, all works as expected. If you mis-match, this is the result. A 3-pin fan receiving PWM Mode signals gets a fixed 12 VDC supply from Pin #2 and gets no signal from pin #4 - it has no line for that. But it also has no special chip, so it cannot modify current flow. So it always runs full speed. If a 4-pin fan is receives older Voltage Control Mode signals, it gets no PWM signal from Pin #4 so its chip cannot modify current flow. BUT the power supply from Pin #2 is a VARYING Voltage so its speed IS controlled just as that of a 3-pin fan. This is not ideal for such a fan design, but it does work. This design yields the best results to simplify introducing the new system to a market full of older fan control designs. If you mix up the fan type and header type, you get either lots of cooling with no control, or fully-controlled cooling.

Next factor: failure. On most mobos all fan headers will monitor the speed signal coming back from the fan for NO signal (sometimes, for a low speed) indicating fan FAILURE. That propmpts an on-screen warning so the user can take action. On many mobos for the CPU_FAN header specifically the actions are more agressive. After a short delay the entire system is shut down without waiting for the temp sensor inside the CPU chip to show high temperatures. This is to protect the CPU from rapid overheating and permanent damage with NO cooling. On many such mobos, the system ALSO will refuse to boot up if there is NO speed signal at the CPU_FAN header immedately on start-up. In the case of an AIO system, of the two elements involved, the PUMP is the more critical on failure. NO pump action means NO heat removeal from the CPU and rapid overheating. On the other hand, if the pump has not failed but one or more rad fans has failed, the temperature rise in the CPU chip will be slower and a different over-temperature protection system will reduce CPU speed to reduce heat generation, and may later shut down completely if the temp continues to rise above a limit. Unfortunately, no mobo manual ever appears to provide details of these protection systems. Further, they never make it clear whether or not other headers like CPU_OPT and AIO_PUMP do the same process.

Now to the case of an AIO system which requires power AND control AND Failure Monitoring of a PUMP and of RAD FANS. IF the mobo has separate headers designed for those functions, that is how it should be done. But some mobos do NOT have a way to control both such headers based specifically on the Temperture Sensor inside the CPU chip, which most certainly IS how the RAD FANS should be done, so those fans need that header. On the other hand, that may be the only header that does the drastic response to FAILURE, so the PUMP needs to be connected to CPU_FAN. Dilemma!

The solution is the Quirk of the results of MIS-match. When necessary, one can use a simple Splitter to connect BOTH the PUMP and all of the RAD FANS to the CPU_FAN header. This is becasue for MOST AIO systems the PUMP is wired just like a 3-pin older fan becasue it is NOT intended to have its speed controlled. So when that unit is conneced to the PWM Mode signals for a header, it runs full speed all the time as intended. But the RAD FANS connected to the SAME set of signals DO respond to the PWM control signal and DO have their speed controlled according to the temperature sensor inside the CPU chip.

There are TWO important items the user MUST do to get this to work. First, when connecting to a Splitter, that unit will send back to the host header the speed of only ONE device, and in this case that MUST be the PUMP speed to monitor for failure. So the user must identify the Splitter's only output connector able to relay the speed signal and connect the PUMP there. This does have the side-effect that the header can NOT monitor for failure any of the RAD FANS, so the user needs to check them from time to time.

The other is a MODE configuration setting in BIOS Setup for the CPU_FAN header. It is essential that this header output signals in the newer PWM Mode, so that option must be set. Many such headers now have an option for Automatic Configuration of Mode and this must NOT be used for this case. In that Mode what happens at every boot-up is that the header starts in PWM Mode and notes the initial "fan" speed. It then sends out a PWM signal for slower speed and checks the result. If the speed did NOT reduce, it concludes that this must be an older Voltage Control Mode (3-pin) "fan" and changes its MODE to that. Now a PUMP will do exactly that (NOT reduce its speed) so the header WILL change toVoltage Control Mode so it CAN reduce PUMP speed, and that is exactly what we do NOT want. So the MODE must be set to PWM.
Thanks for this detailed explanation and technical information. I have been building systems for twenty-five years and have used many liquid cooling kits.

But this is the first time I've come across a liquid cooling device with a variable speed pump. That's why I wanted to ask because the pump speed works in PWM Mode, not DC Mode, with liquid cooling (Asus ROG Strix LC III 360). However, in the 1st generation LC 360, it operated at constant speed in DC Mode. I think this is how it is set in Asetek Gen7 v2 models.

Should I still run the pump at full speed (or a steady speed close to full speed)? Or should I calibrate with QFAN and leave it like that?
 

candasulas

Member
Sep 30, 2020
31
1
41
Most pumps run on PWM, so depending on how your motherboard setup the cpu header, it can go on either voltage draw / cpu load value / or temperature on how to ramp the PWM.
Although some pumps have a 4-Pin socket connection, when we connect them to the motherboard (AIO_Pump Socket), they switch to DC Mode and provide constant speed. At least this was the case with the models of many brands I used before, such as CoolerMaster and Corsair.

But this new generation (Asetek Gen7 v2) ASUS ROG Strix LC III 360 runs at variable speed in PWM mode. When I encountered something like this for the first time, I wanted to ask because would the variable operation of the pump speed, just like the fans, cause any damage to the pump in the long term? Or does it reduce cooling performance? I wondered about this. Until now, many articles and reviews on the internet have repeatedly emphasized that the pump speed should be at a constant speed.
 

In2Photos

Golden Member
Mar 21, 2007
1,631
1,654
136
I did some of the same research you are doing when we built my son's PC a few years back. His build was going to be the first time I used an AIO. He bought an inexpensive Enermax AIO. After building the system I noted that the pump was slightly audible over the fans in the system and wondered if we could lower the pump speed to quiet the system. What I found that was that there was no consensus. Some people said the pump needs to run at full speed, some said you could run it at any speed but keep it at a constant speed, while others said that variable speed was the way to go. The only thing people seemed to agree on was that running the pump too slow wouldn't remove the heat from the CPU fast enough and running it too fast wouldn't allow the water to remove the heat as it passed over the cold plate. So I did some testing on my son's AIO and found that we could run his AIO at 50% speed, with no reduction in cooling, but it ran much quieter. Over 2 years later and the AIO runs today like it did when first installed.

On my build the AIO pump is inaudible at full speed, so I opted to leave it that way. 1 year later and it's still runs like it did day 1 as well. So I say hook it up and enjoy it and don't fret over it. If it runs a constant speed and is quiet, great. If it runs at variable speed and cooling is great and it's quiet, great.
 

Paperdoc

Platinum Member
Aug 17, 2006
2,307
279
126
OP, you are right; I was wrong. This IS a different design from most, and the PUMP is designed to operate a variable speeds. Exactly how this is done is not completely clear, but I can make some guesses.

But first a Why? item. In an AIO system there are TWO components that impact the rate of heat removal. The PUMP speed determines the rate of moving heat from CPU to rad. The FAN speeds determine the rate of heat movement from rad to air and out. These two devices have different performance characteristics in terms of control system Gain and especially in response time. IF the control system allows the speed of BOTH to be altered constantly according to the temperature sensor in the CPU chip, then a simultaneous change of BOTH means that the impact of ONE will take effect first, then the second will add to that, usually causing the result to over-correct. So a new change to BOTH will try to reverse that, and the same over-correction happens. The longer-term result is that the temperature is changing constantly as the system re-tries to fix the over-corrections. The solution to that is simple. Only ONE of the devices is set to change according to temperature, and the other is unchanging. For most AIO systems this is done by having the PUMP run always at full speed.

Now, this over-correction issue certainly CAN be avoided by having the PUMP operate at some slower speed, but still changing never or infrequently. By doing this one could arrange that the range of fan speeds is perfectly able to handle the range of CPU temperatures (from workload range). The only risk is in setting that fixed lower pump speed so low that the system cannot cool adequately for the very highest workloads. For a PERSON who makes this pump speed setting manually that is a factor to consider. But I'm sure that a properly-designed software tool could do this job very well, altering the pump speed infrequently according to longer-term but recent temperature history. I expect that is what this system does. To use it you DO have to install the software app supplied to take over cooling control.

The part I don't know is HOW the pump speed is set. Certainly both the pump and the rad fans are controlled using the newer 4-pin PWM Mode signal system. Further, I am pretty sure that the software tool does its job by making its own adjustment to the configuration options of the fan header(s) involved so that the base-level coding of fan speed control in BIOS does its normal job. I do note the caution in the AIO manual that says if you connect the PUMP to a mobo AIO_PUMP header it will always run full speed and MAY make enough noise to notice. In the mobo manual this is confirmed - it says that header can ONLY run full speed with no control. (Presumably this means that header never sends out a PWM signal or always sends out a 100% On signal.) So, to allow the software to make Pump speed changes it would need to be plugged into a different header. Normally that would mean the CPU_FAN header. That would leave the CPU_OPT header for the Rad Fans, since that header is one that is controlled according to CPU internal temperture. The puzzle for me, though, is that those two headers normally are simply mirrors of each other, and any change in one is reproduced exactly in the other. So I don't understand how pump speed and fan speed can be changed differently. Maybe ASUS knows some clever tricks for this. Or maybe, even, they have made those two mobo headers NOT fixed mirrors on their own mobos and that is how.

Bottom line: my inclination alway is to ensure the cooling system can do its job exactly as the designers intended. In this case that appears to mean connect both the PUMP and the RAD FANS to headers that CAN control their speeds using the PWM mode of signals. So I suggest you use the CPU_FAN and CPU_OPT headers, and let the software app take control. In BIOS Setup Configure both headers identically to use the default Normal Profile and the newer PWM Mode. I suspect the software will then adjust those to whatever it is designed to do.
 
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