Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

[DisEnchantment]

Speculate at will

 

[adroc_thurston]

So Zen 5 has only a 15% increase in Geekbench but a 40% increase in SIR2017?

Kids are running some nutso mental gymnastics championship trying to find a gotcha (which doesn't exist).

 

[adroc_thurston]

AMD have steadily and significantly reduced street price over time even on their current gen products

Because comp pressure.
Which Zen5 has none of.
Not until 2026.

 

[cytg111]

Now the hype has reached videocardz

AMD Zen5 architecture is allegedly 40% faster core-to-core than Zen4 in SPEC benchmarks - VideoCardz.com

Rumor: AMD Zen5 is 40% faster than Zen4 in SPEC benchmarks According to reputable leaker “Kepler_L2”, AMD’s next-gen CPU architecture is said to provide (up to) 40% increase over Zen4. AMD’s Zen 5 CPU architecture appears to be gearing up for a major improvement over its predecessor, Zen 4...

videocardz.com

I bet you cant get it to 60%...............

 

[Joe NYC]

Yes very realistic.
You're gonna pay $999 for 16c.

My point is: I am against fake MSRPs with subsequent deep discounts. Makes the company look amateurish.

Apple products sell mostly at MSRP. That should be the goal of AMD establishing itself as a premium brand.

 

[DaaQ]

I don't think it would be right to take a bundle and subtract other components at their list prices to arrive the cost of Zen 4. The math on the bundles may be a little more fuzzy than that.

But it still does point to some of the Zen 4 CPUs discounting even deeper under the MSRP. When CPUs are compared under performance / price criteria, reviewers plug in these unrealistic MSRPs.

It doesn't seem like a smart approach of AMD marketing to raise the MSRPs even higher, making the difference between MSRP and street price even greater.

It seems to me that it would be in AMD's interest to stop this lunacy, and instead of perpetuating fictitious MSRP, AMD would take an opportunity (of highly desirable Zen 5 product) to introduce realistic MSRP and maintaining it throughout the channel.

I think you are misunderstanding me. The price I posted isn't just the bundle with the RAM and motherboard subtracted at their respective list prices. If you add the individual components into your cart (all items must be in stock) instead of the bundle the CPU price shows up in the cart. If you reserve them that way, the RAM and/or motherboard can be returned (immediately after checkout if you want) and you can keep the CPU for that price.

View attachment 96118

Using micro center is disingenuous, as not everything is available to ship, and the store locations are sparse.
As I am looking for a 7900xtx, no option to ship from Micro Center.

 

[gdansk]

Move MTL junk to MTL thread

 

[Ajay]

So Zen 6? Zen 6 is to bring huge changes to uncore and advanced packaging.

Yes. That's why I am surprised they haven't decided yet - unless DDR6 may not come to desktop. I would tend to think packaging changes would affect socket pinouts, but there are ways around that.

 

[gdansk]

No way is AMD abandoning AM5 after only 2 generations

People will be understanding if it uses a different memory type. If it's still plain-old DDR5 then it would be disliked.

 

[dr1337]

Its amazing to me how we're still watching DDR5 roll out to the masses and people are acting like DDR6 is right around the corner, I bet AM6 doesn't happen until at least 2028.


Why are people talking about D6 in the Zen 5 thread anyways? 0% chance AMD implements any form of DDR6 until next arch generation as is.

 

[Rigg]

Switching sockets for Zen 6 would go over about as well with consumers/reviewers as a 43% MSRP increase for 9950X. If AMD want's a sure fire way to burn up the good will they've built up since Zen launched stuff like this is the formula.

 

[APU_Fusion]

This thread has +40% rage, sadness, angst and wild guesses and trolling than the Zen 4 thread. Quite a thing of beauty. Can’t wait for zen 6 thread

 

[Abwx]

Wait so canonically Intel wins by cheating???

You wont find a single benchmark that was "updated" and then favoured AMD, in all cases it gave Intel a better "IPC" than in the previous version comparatively to AMD, it started with CPU Z wich was urgently and hugely "updated" because Zen 1 was trouncing SKL to Cinebench R20/R23 that increased Intel "IPC" by 5-6% compared to CB R15 and more recently Geekbench, i wont talk of Uselessbenchmark when Zen 4 was released, this one use a simple look up table for the scores.

 

[adroc_thurston]

So we missed an SLC in exchange for massive bloat of the NPU

yea stx1 had 16megs of MALL once.

 

[Kepler_L2]

Oh, snap! Now I get it why you were saying "F MS" some weeks earlier.

So we missed an SLC in exchange for massive bloat of the NPU. FFS I hate this while AI PC thing.

It actually gets worse because TOPs requirements is going up soon. Nutella is single-handledly ruining multiple generations of SoCs.

 

[Timmah!]

That's not how that works.
If my choice is a $270 Z4 6 core that's 110% the performance of a $250 Z3 8 core, then I'm getting more bang for my money with the more expensive one.

If Z5 really is 40%+ more INT perf, it can afford to be massively more expensive and still sell. And ST is still king despite all the MOAR COARS crowd' screaming.

I think you are overestimating most people’s willingness to spend money on something as non-essential to life as faster CPU.

You can bet, if 8 core Zen5 is 40 percent faster than Zen4 (and subsequently say 20 percent faster than 7800x3D in gaming), and its priced at 500+, utter majority of people will without hesitation go after 200 bucks cheaper older cpu and put the money they saved into faster GPU or whatever else. Cause they are on budget. Only small group of PCMR kind, who have to have the best of the best alongside their 4090s will pick Zen5.

This AMD can price whatever they want cause they have no competition is nonsense. They will be competing with cheaper and older products, that are not significantly worse. Did 7000 series Ryzen make 5000 series obsolete? Course they did not, those CPUs are still absolutely fine. Even 40 percent speed-up is not some be all and all, like its presented here, that everyone and their mother will run to buy money no object on day one, as if it somehow revolutionized computing. Its not quantum computer for gods sake. Its another incremental performance bump, that Most people wont be able to perceive in 95 percent of situations. And certainly wont feel the urge to randomly pay double for it than what they were used to, because apparently there is no competition.

 

[DisEnchantment]

Some people still don't believe that RDNA 3 was an industrial accident it seems...

Does it matter if people believe or not? People could not care less what may or may not have happened at AMD. Bottomline is that the product was not what it was hyped up to be.

The numbers may or may not be realistic but it is all fine and good knowing we are speculating. It might as well be greater, probably.
But when it gets dished out as facts it starts to get annoying.

You see, it is possible to have access to classified information but still acknowledge there are chances it may not be 100% true or to acknowledge that not everyone accept everything as fact until everything is out, below is a refreshing example.

Again, even assuming the numbers are true

 

[Fjodor2001]

Only 43 days left until the AMD keynote at Computex on June 3 and still not any solid leak. I wonder if we’ll get any credible and precise performance numbers or pricing info before that, or if AMD will manage too keep everything secret until we hear it from Lisa Su directly. Any opinions, based on e.g. past track record?

 

[adroc_thurston]

May/June - Strix Point (Could be MS AI build event or Computex). Release in July or August
June - GNR (Computex). Release in Q3/Q4
Jan - Kraken Point and Strix Halo (CES 25). Release in Q1 25

GNR and STX1 are both June 3rd.
The former is July, the latter is August.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Not at 6000 MT/s memory:

>non-JEDEC spec
Come on.
You're smarter than that.

 

[Ghostsonplanets]

I checked the OEMs a couple of weeks back and

24Q1 for Hawk Point seems weird. I just checked Lenovo's website and the ThinkPads are still all Phoenix. Same with other OEMs. Hawk Point seems to be trickling out. (I don't dispute AMD sales numbers from their earnings report. Just saying that I've yet to see Hawk Point versions of the laptops I'd buy available. Perhaps they're going to gamer laptops first.)

Even so, the guidance is appreciated.

Checked HP, ASUS, Dell and Lenovo US

Lenovo has plenty of Ideapads and Yogas with HWK, Dell has Inspirons, ASUS has Vivobook and Zenbook. HP has no HWK offering.

Thinkpads probably weren't refreshed yet. I think only the Thinkpad Z line has been updated so far with Core Ultra processors.

I get the perf/W part, but the AI part is meaningless for the Ryzen Zx parts coming to these devices, as they're probably going to be disabled again anyway.

Sadly NPU will be shoved down our throats due to MS requirements. Even if the Ryzen Z series disable them, that's still wasted space that impact SoC design choices AMD has to make.

Ok I get it, but for ~25W gaming handhelds that are choking on memory bandwidth and power for the iGPU this doesn't make it exactly a big selling point. Phoenix's 8-core CPU performance already looks pretty unbalanced compared to the GPU.

Z1 Extreme is both bandwidth starved and power starved. Kraken setup is much more balanced for Handheld gaming. 8 Z5 Cores + 8 RDNA 3.5 CUs. The RDNA 3.5 will also improve perf/W and v/f curve, alongside geometry and some new instructions. So you can expect an SOC design that works better at low power, with better perf/W and achieving higher clocks on the GPU side.

Edit: Also improved memory controller with support for higher LPDDR5X speeds.

This is just speculation, but both KRK 444 and 242 should be reaching 3+ GHz on the iGPU.

 

[adroc_thurston]

The current issue with the degrading CPUs may cause a major shift among OEMs, because I can only imagine how many service calls the OEMs get or will get for this.

Ehhh OEMs/ODMs don't use gamer stable™ SKUs.

 

[Hitman928]

As adroc says, meds.

Yeah, that doesn’t work when he says it either.

 

[Mahboi]

Halo doesn't have any Zen5c cores.

That's a weird choice for a mobile product...
They're really going for the Phat thing eh.

 

[Fjodor2001]

this is literally the opposite of a traditional HMP setup.

What is and why? And in any case, what's the problem with it?

Doesn't exist.

Yet

4+8 premium mobile, 4+4 mainstream mobile.
Till the universe dies to the heat death.

You're talking about what X+Y core combination (Zen5, Zen5C, Zen5LP, ...), on what SKUs? And since you're maxing out at 4+8, no Zen5LP in Strix Halo despite being mentioned previously in this thread as having Zen5LP (and 16C Zen5, which is above 4+8)?

And you're saying these (4+8 and 4+4 mobile) are definitely the only SKUs with b.L, and b.L / Zen5LP will not be used on any other AMD SKU to follow (e.g. Zen5 Refresh / X3D or Zen6)?

 

[yuri69]

NUCs are a niche of B&M shops - you really don't need mobility at a front desk. However, you need *some* mobility at nearly any other position.

* Being at home office for a day -> laptop
* Attending a meeting -> laptop
* Solving a cross-team project issues -> laptop
* Working from an office cafe/lounge -> laptop
* Being on a business trip -> laptop
* Holding an on-call at home -> laptop
* Giving a presentation -> laptop
* Commuting & working -> laptop

And no, shared laptops bring pain. Being unfamiliar with the device kills the efficiency.