8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

[BFG10K]

8GB

• Dying Light 2, Battlefield 2042, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, Starfield, Forza Horizon 5, Horizon Forbidden West, Alan Wake 2, The Last of Us, Tekken 8, FC 24, Detroit Become Human, Death Stranding, Alone in The Dark, Overwatch 2
  3060 12GB higher 1% low than 4060 8GB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIfz57wmywg
• Cyberpunk 2077, Diablo 4, Hogwarts Legacy, Horizon Zero Dawn, Microsoft Flight Sim 2020, Witcher 3, Watch Dogs Legion skip to 4K + DLSS for each game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiaWWd0xGc
• Ratchet & Clank, Plague Tale Requiem, Last Of Us, Jedi Survivor, Far Cry 6, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Cyberpunk 2077 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr3MckDxMfE&pp=ygUTMTZnYiB2cyA4Z2IgNDA2MCB0aQ==
• Far Cry 6, Godfall, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Forspoken, Doom Eternal, Watchdogs Legion https://youtu.be/fJc--C01P90?t=268
• Last Of Us, Resident Evil 4, Callisto Protocol, Plague Tale Requiem, Halo Infinite, Forspoken https://youtu.be/2_Y3E631ro8?t=429
• Last Of Us, Hogwarts Legacy, Resident Evil 4, Forspoken, Plague Tale Requiem, Callisto Protocol https://youtu.be/Rh7kFgHe21k?t=288
• Hogwarts Legacy, Last Of Us, Spider Man Remastered, Doom Eternal, Forza Horizon 5 https://youtu.be/R943CbDTq_s?t=1473
• Horizon Forbidden West 4060 has issues @ 1080p + DLSS unless you switch off frame generation and reduce settings to high https://youtu.be/3AyKvI23VGw?t=233
• Horizon Forbidden West 3070 requires reducing textures 2 notches https://youtu.be/xTwEGy6HHKo?t=351
• Deathloop https://youtu.be/lu_XHyO-6zY?t=918
• Ghost Recon Breakpoint https://youtu.be/iUGppQVpXzU?t=529
• Resident Evil 2 https://youtu.be/Aa-gsgRjMII?t=796
• Talos Principle 2 https://youtu.be/K6FATQAuEwI?t=337
• Spider Man Remastered https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1060
• Witcher 3 https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1240

Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.

Spoiler

Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:

Spoiler

Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

Spoiler

10GB / 12GB

• Plague Tale Requiem 3080 10GB tanks if you enable ray tracing, would be fast enough if it had more VRAM because if you stop moving, the framerate stabilizes to >60FPS https://youtu.be/7zjrMww3fAc?t=496
• Hogwarts Legacy 4K + RT, 4060Ti 16GB is faster than 4070 12GB https://youtu.be/X-h_R488Mq8?t=191

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.

Spoiler

1. It's the player's fault.
2. It's the reviewer's fault.
3. It's the developer's fault.
4. It's AMD's fault.
5. It's the game's fault.
6. It's the driver's fault.
7. It's a system configuration issue.
8. Wrong settings were tested.
9. Wrong area was tested.
10. Wrong games were tested.
11. 4K is irrelevant.
12. Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
13. Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
15. It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
16. It's an anomaly.
17. It's a console port.
18. It's a conspiracy against NV.
19. 8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
21. Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.

According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!

 

[psolord]

That sounds like a very roundabout way to state and then cope with the fact that 8 GB isn't enough.

The rest of your post is just more supercilious silliness. If I could find some game where the other hardware resources of the 4060 Ti aren't fully utilized, could those also be considered overkill? NVidia should have cut back on the shaders if they can't keep them fed.

All you do is demonstrate that the 4060 Ti should have had a wider bus and 12 GB of VRAM, because it's otherwise too lopsided of a design. Insisting otherwise was arguments over "correct" settings is only going to lead to consumers making poor purchasing decisions and companies not correcting their behavior.

No it is a very direct way, to say that fabricated tests, will show some grave differences. All that is easily fixable with the end visual result being great and problem free. They do have an academic interest, but they do not address the matter at hand.

The 4060ti 8GB is fine as it is. It just should have been cheaper, never said otherwise. Still compared to other 8GB cards, it aint that bad. Hey I am not here to defend the 4060ti. I don't have it and I don't really care about it, nor did I say to anyone go buy it. I also say not buy the 16GB model, get a 4070 instead.

I am insisting on correct settings, and actually broadcasting it too, because there is fine line between what is important and what is not, in terms of psychovisual perception. I can assure you, that the 8GBs framebuffer, is not the limitting factor here. That's why I am still uploading tests of old tech, so people can see what they can expect and decide for themselves. I am actually trying to stop them from excess purchasing decisions. I mean I have a 4070ti and still doing more tests on the GTX 970.

 

[maddie]

Maybe a snip of poetry will help this thread.

"Oh, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,"

 

[SolidQ]

Nice downgrade

"Optimized for 8GB"

 

[Ranulf]

Maybe in some extreme examples, where all cards will fall to unplayable results.

Next gen will kill them all.

Case in point, ARK Survival Ascended. Retested yesterday by gamegpu.

Of all the games to pick for extreme examples...you pick Ark 1.5 the re-selling of the same game but with new graphics. Yet it is the same problem the devs had with the original ARK Survival Evolved...the engine sucks and did until you had 2-3 gens of new hardware to brute force it. The only people buying ARK SA are those addicted to the gameplay or those who don't know better.

 

[psolord]

Nice downgrade

"Optimized for 8GB"

More like optimized for consoles.

 

[psolord]

Of all the games to pick for extreme examples...you pick Ark 1.5 the re-selling of the same game but with new graphics. Yet it is the same problem the devs had with the original ARK Survival Evolved...the engine sucks and did until you had 2-3 gens of new hardware to brute force it. The only people buying ARK SA are those addicted to the gameplay or those who don't know better.

My friend, most if not all UE5 games, have exhibited the same behavior. The demos too. I mean they are there, nobody is testing, but still everyone has an opinion. Go play Brothers a Tale of two Sons remake and see how nice it runs...vram has nothing to do with it either.

The reason I am insisting on true heavy games, like Starfield, Avatar, Alan Wake II, UE5 and the lot, is because the premise of this thread, is that more vram will keep you safe. It will not. And again, I know more vram is better, if you examine it like that arbitrarily. Its excessive necessity, in regards to the tflops/vram ratio is what I am questioning about. YES in some cases, it will help. In most it won't.

Anyhoo, new example, own test (non monetized) very representing of what happens when you choose stupid settings.

Outpost Infinity Siege is the subject. The freagin 4070ti, with 4K DLSS balanced, Ultra preset, drops to 40fps or lower. VRAM maxes at 9GBs. No vram problem, gpu problem again.

Same run on the 3060ti. Same 4K DLSS balanced. Medium preset with maxed textures you all seem to like. No vram problem again. Performance drops to 30s though.

OMG I thought this was UE4 but it's UE5! lol That's why my 970 had such a hard time with it! xD

 

[nurturedhate]

8gb vram gpu for under $15
https://www.ebay.com/itm/326081778944 (not me)

 

[MrTeal]

It's an auction with 4 days left for a 7 year old card...

 

[VirtualLarry]

It's an auction with 4 days left for a 7 year old card...

Likely, thrice mined on, too.

Kind of like refried beans?

 

[SolidQ]

Preview version

 

[Ranulf]

My friend, most if not all UE5 games, have exhibited the same behavior. The demos too. I mean they are there, nobody is testing, but still everyone has an opinion. Go play Brothers a Tale of two Sons remake and see how nice it runs...vram has nothing to do with it either.

My friend, just look at the reviews of Ark 2.0. It isn't UE5, at best its both UE5/new engine and bugs from a dev that has been notorious for years.

 

[Mopetar]

It's an auction with 4 days left for a 7 year old card...

I think the point was to show how long we've had 8 GB cards. Unless you're planning on gaming with reduced (or "correct" as some around here have taken to calling them) settings, 8 GB does not cut it. Anything above $200 should have 12 GB. Anything that's currently in development is targeting the latest console specs and they have at least 10 GB of fast VRAM.

Likely, thrice mined on, too.

If it has survived that it'll probably last until the apocalypse. Also, it wasn't too long ago someone would have paid $100 for that and have been quite satisfied.

 

[igor_kavinski]

If it has survived that it'll probably last until the apocalypse. Also, it wasn't too long ago someone would have paid $100 for that and have been quite satisfied.

Don't know if this is a Steam feature but it should detect your GPU and then give you a curated list of games known to run well at your preferred settings (fps, resolution, texture quality, AA/AF setting etc.)

 

[psolord]

My friend, just look at the reviews of Ark 2.0. It isn't UE5, at best its both UE5/new engine and bugs from a dev that has been notorious for years.

Ark: Survival Ascended - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It says Unreal Engine 5. Bugs is a different matter altogether.

I'd advise you to have a look at other UE5 games as well. Especially open world ones.

 

[jpiniero]

I think the point was to show how long we've had 8 GB cards.

That's because the runup to 1 GB chips was fast, then 2 GB was slow and anything more even slower.

AMD saw the price increases incoming, and slashed investment in dGPUs because they didn't think they could get prices high enough to make it work. nVidia made it work. Who knows, if crypto doesn't happen, maybe AMD is already gone.

We may be at that point again unless AMD is able to get scalable chiplets working.

 

[reggie_fils_aime]

The runup to one gig didn't feel that fast - though, maybe that's because my perspective comes as someone who happily gamed on GeForce MX4 cards with 64 meg buffers. 1-2 felt like a blink of an eye, to me.

 

[Iron Woode]

Seems like one poster here thinks gaming on a GTX 1060 3GB would be fine at the correct settings.

I am still surprised to see my Time Spy scores go from 7000 to 15071 when I upgraded to my RX 6800 from a 1070 Ti.

 

[psolord]

Seems like one poster here thinks gaming on a GTX 1060 3GB would be fine at the correct settings.

I am still surprised to see my Time Spy scores go from 7000 to 15071 when I upgraded to my RX 6800 from a 1070 Ti.

If you are referring to me sir, I honestly don't know how the 1060 3GB comes into the discussion, because I never mentioned it. However with correct settings, many things get improved indeed. I don't know why PC users in this thread, have the urge to mock this.

This is the discussion about (mostly) 8GBs however, vs everything above it, as it has turned out.

Your Time Spy score, has nothing to do with VRAM though. Instead it has everything to do, with gpu power.

These are two screenshots of Time Spy on my GTX 970. VRAM maxes out below 3GBs, obviously because Futuremark wanted to include the 3GB models of the era too.






Although the test is old, the assets aren't that bad and for less than 3GBs, they managed to produce a decent image. Imagine what they can do, with 2.5 times that! And keep in mind that the vanilla Time Spy is a 1440p affair. I will have to check what the extreme is doing.

I also have a 7yo run of Time Spy for my GTX 1070 (non monetized)

Vram is way lower here, about 1GB less, and I wonder if MSI Afterburner was not measuring right back then? Or the assets changed? Anyhoo, it is hovering around 40-45fps which is considerably faster than what the non vram limited 970 could do. Same as...I don't know, a 1070ti vs a 6800 maybe?

If you want, I can make the same run on my 3060ti and you will see how it is almost 2X faster than the 1070, although it has the same amount of video ram.

 

[psolord]

Also did we talk about Helldivers 2 yet? No? I mean why would we? Only half a mil people have played it yet.

https://steamdb.info/app/553850/charts/

*

edit OMG that almost half mil, is the concurrent players. The owners of the game are WAY above that, but inconclusive.

How does it fair?



I mean the 4060ti 8GB is almost three times faster compared to the rx6600, but all 8GB cards are the same right? And they should be absolutely priced by their framebuffer... It is even beating the 6800s, hmmm.....And the 3060 12GB is barely playable even at 1080p, in spite its 12GBs. Weirdness galore.... Hmmm....

 

[Ranulf]

Another now UE5 game to watch, Starship Troopers Extermination. The devs have upgraded it from UE4 to 5 in the past 6 months and now have a big update. All sorts of problems for most people, horrible performance. Most interesting is that DLSS seems to run bad and that FSR is better, more stable. Early access game and all but something I'm keeping an eye on. Sadly the game was a lot of fun when it launched almost a year ago. It was rough peformance then but still mostly playable.

 

[igor_kavinski]

PSOLORD is so humble, really. He should be a much sought after "correct settings" consultant for game studios! I don't know why he wastes time making videos for fools like us

 

[Iron Woode]

Here is a sampling of my 3dmark scores during various drivers and BIOS updates:

 

[Mopetar]

If you run your game at 240p even your $5 gas station Casio wristwatch can produce playable frame rates. Anything more is incorrect settings!

Here are thirty-seven and a half different graphs and charts to illustrate my point. I will post them again later in the event that someone engages the critical thinking portion of their brain and recognizes that they have nothing to do what's being discussed in this thread.

I should probably split this up into three different posts for no apparent reason. I think putting it all in one post might actually be CORRECT SETTINGS though. Does anyone have an unrelated graph for this?

 

[BFG10K]

Guys, guys, version 2.0 of the Correct Settings Utility(tm) is working.

Here's a sneak peak, lemme know what you think!

 

[blckgrffn]

Also did we talk about Helldivers 2 yet? No? I mean why would we? Only half a mil people have played it yet.

https://steamdb.info/app/553850/charts/

*

edit OMG that almost half mil, is the concurrent players. The owners of the game are WAY above that, but inconclusive.

How does it fair?

View attachment 96838

I mean the 4060ti 8GB is almost three times faster compared to the rx6600, but all 8GB cards are the same right? And they should be absolutely priced by their framebuffer... It is even beating the 6800s, hmmm.....And the 3060 12GB is barely playable even at 1080p, in spite its 12GBs. Weirdness galore.... Hmmm....

As a game I am actually playing, I find this interesting but not necessarily reflecting my experience. I don’t think I tweaked anything when launching the game except to enable HDR but I will have to circle back. My 6800 is usually at 70 fps+ and I have chill enabled. Then again maybe the 3D chip matters here.

I would think the ability to benchmark this game would be really hard without a provided benchmark utility - which maybe I missed? It’s a service game and the runs vary wildly, and if your are playing solo on the lowest difficulty (ie, nearly no enemies and no teammates spamming heavy attacks) then that’s not representative of how the game is played.

It is interesting that for a Sony console focused title Nvidia seems favored. I am wondering what effects Ultra pushes and how many of them are even present on the PS5. It’s likely these are toned down for the ~6700 adjacent GPU in there.