Question AMD Rembrandt/Zen 3+ APU Speculation and Discussion

[izaic3]

Alright, so we've had some leaks so far. I don't know if any of it's been confirmed yet, as it's pretty early, but here is what I've surmised so far (massive grain of salt of course):

• Zen 3 "enhanced"
• DDR5 and LPDDR5 support
• PCIE4
• 6nm
• CVML
• Navi 2/RDNA/RDNA 2
• 12 CU
• Socket FP7/AM5
• Possible USB4
• 2021(unlikely) -2022 (more likely) release date

If if turns out to have RDNA 2 and 12 CU, I could see iGPU performance potentially almost doubling over Cezanne.

If I've made any mistakes or gotten anything wrong, please let me know. I'd also love to hear more knowledgeable people weigh in on their expectations.

 

[ahimsa42]

Laptop availability is so hit and miss though. I can't get a HP Elitebook 845 G9 with a 6850HS cpu here in Australia. But in the USA they have been able to customize builds for nearly 5 months now to include the cpu. To rub salt into the wound, HP USA is offering nearly 50% off with delivery in Jan. Tumble weeds from HP Australia

i agree-rembrandt laptop availablity has been terrible to say the least, even in the US and especially for the 6800U. seems like rembrandt was targeted for handhelds & as far as laptops, it's merely a stopgap between cezzane & phoenix.

 

[leoneazzurro]

H models are widespread enough, here in Europe you can find easily enough various models from HP, Dell, Lenovo, Asus, Acer. U variants are indeed a problem, because you literally cannot find a U model for lower than 900€ which is a lot. Lenovo and HP have several professional models but the cost is quite high. More than availability because of the chip, what I can understand is that there is a lot of unsold inventory. Euro market is still literally flooded with 5XXX series, and i think most of vendors want to clear up their stocks before putting their newer models on sale, in the bracket with the lowest margins. That fits very well with the fact that U models can be found on higher margins laptops but not in the lower end.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Euro market is still literally flooded with 5XXX series

Intel has a hand in the 5000 series laptops not selling. They flooded the market with i3-1115G4 laptops while Ryzen 5300U and 5400U laptops are not that widespread. 5500U laptops sell for a bit more than the i3 laptops because they have 6C/12T but most consumers don't know that and they just buy the cheapest Intel laptop they can find, which leaves Ryzen laptops as unsold inventory.

 

[leoneazzurro]

Let's say that the whole PC client market is down, and this also helps not selling. As you told, even Intel is still selling 11th gen mobile chips in quantities.

 

[ahimsa42]

is this an AMD issue or the laptop manufacturers doing? it seems the majority of laptop users are all clamoring for 6800U options as this is by far the best rembrandt chip imo. if things don't get better soon, i think many consumers will look elsewhere & buy intel, perhaps for the first time ever. only a few days ago i saw a sale on a 15.6" i5 with a GTX 1650 for $500. the only thing that prevented me from buying it is that it only came with 8GB of ram. i would much prefer a 15W 6800U but that does not seem possible at this point in the current market.

 

[moinmoin]

is this an AMD issue or the laptop manufacturers doing? it seems the majority of laptop users are all clamoring for 6800U options as this is by far the best rembrandt chip imo.

I'm starting to think it's the laptop manufacturers doing, throttling the production of new designs as long as stocks of older designs are not sold through. Seemed to me that AMD was caught on the wrong foot by this development. I just hope this won't slow down the roll out of Dragon Range and Phoenix Point, but it prolly will...

 

[LightningZ71]

Intel has a hand in the 5000 series laptops not selling. They flooded the market with i3-1115G4 laptops while Ryzen 5300U and 5400U laptops are not that widespread. 5500U laptops sell for a bit more than the i3 laptops because they have 6C/12T but most consumers don't know that and they just buy the cheapest Intel laptop they can find, which leaves Ryzen laptops as unsold inventory.

This is so true. In searching for laptops for friends and family, I was routinely finding sub $300 laptops with those i3-1115G4 processors with passable specs for casual web and office use. Finding anything AMD that wasn't an old 3XXX chip down that low was near impossible, and those don't hold a candle to the 1115G4. Now, the 5500u could be found down in the $400 range quite often but had to contend with the i5-1135G7 there as well. The 5500u is arguably a better chip than the 1115g4 all around, so it's not like AMD didn't have something competitive to sell down in those prices.

 

[LightningZ71]

is this an AMD issue or the laptop manufacturers doing? it seems the majority of laptop users are all clamoring for 6800U options as this is by far the best rembrandt chip imo. if things don't get better soon, i think many consumers will look elsewhere & buy intel, perhaps for the first time ever. only a few days ago i saw a sale on a 15.6" i5 with a GTX 1650 for $500. the only thing that prevented me from buying it is that it only came with 8GB of ram. i would much prefer a 15W 6800U but that does not seem possible at this point in the current market.

For gaming, the 6600h/3050 combination is universally a better choice than any 6800u unless you absolutely have to live off the grid for half a day at a time. I can almost always find those laptops for less than the 6800u ones list for (not being able to get them to ship is a separate issue). If you're not gaming, the 5625/5825 are just a good of a choice for most situations as the iGPU is less important and the CPU cores are exactly the same. Also, if you don't need the absolute fastest CPU performance, the 5500/5700u are still plenty good as daily drivers, having more than enough threads for anything most people do. I occasionally borrow my daughter's 5500u laptop when she's playing on her switch and I usually don't run into any performance frustration.

AMD is currently competing with itself quite effectively at the moment.

 

[ahimsa42]

For gaming, the 6600h/3050 combination is universally a better choice than any 6800u unless you absolutely have to live off the grid for half a day at a time. I can almost always find those laptops for less than the 6800u ones list for (not being able to get them to ship is a separate issue). If you're not gaming, the 5625/5825 are just a good of a choice for most situations as the iGPU is less important and the CPU cores are exactly the same. Also, if you don't need the absolute fastest CPU performance, the 5500/5700u are still plenty good as daily drivers, having more than enough threads for anything most people do. I occasionally borrow my daughter's 5500u laptop when she's playing on her switch and I usually don't run into any performance frustration.

AMD is currently competing with itself quite effectively at the moment.

i don't want a laptop with a dgpu though or i would do so. the games i play do not require anything near a 3050 so a 6800U is all the performance i need at this point. i think you are correct about amd competing with itself though so am rooting for intel to step up it's igpu game so consumers have more options.

 

[Thibsie]

is this an AMD issue or the laptop manufacturers doing? it seems the majority of laptop users are all clamoring for 6800U options as this is by far the best rembrandt chip imo. if things don't get better soon, i think many consumers will look elsewhere & buy intel, perhaps for the first time ever. only a few days ago i saw a sale on a 15.6" i5 with a GTX 1650 for $500. the only thing that prevented me from buying it is that it only came with 8GB of ram. i would much prefer a 15W 6800U but that does not seem possible at this point in the current market.

Or just take a 5800U which what I did.

 

[ahimsa42]

Or just take a 5800U which what I did.

i already own a 4500U though so a 5800U would not be worth it to me as the main reason i am looking to upgrade is for the igpu.

 

[Thibsie]

i already own a 4500U though so a 5800U would not be worth it to me as the main reason i am looking to upgrade is for the igpu.

Yeah, if the igpu is the target, no choice.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Yeah, if the igpu is the target, no choice.

I understand that the iGPU is good but if it's not available at an attractive price, why delay a needed upgrade? Unless, you don't really need an upgrade.

I picked up an i3-1125G4 HP laptop for $329 with 4 GB RAM and 256 GB SSD. Got it upgraded to 32 GB RAM from a shop for $103. Went to the shop because I didn't want to deal with the stress of opening it up (these thin laptops are harder to open). Even the shop techie spent a good ten minutes trying to open it carefully for fear of breaking something because the cover is plastic and it required so much force to pull it apart, it was nerve racking for me to just watch him doing it.

Anyway, the laptop's responsiveness feels great now.

 

[ahimsa42]

I understand that the iGPU is good but if it's not available at an attractive price, why delay a needed upgrade? Unless, you don't really need an upgrade.

I picked up an i3-1125G4 HP laptop for $329 with 4 GB RAM and 256 GB SSD. Got it upgraded to 32 GB RAM from a shop for $103. Went to the shop because I didn't want to deal with the stress of opening it up (these thin laptops are harder to open). Even the shop techie spent a good ten minutes trying to open it carefully for fear of breaking something because the cover is plastic and it required so much force to pull it apart, it was nerve racking for me to just watch him doing it.

Anyway, the laptop's responsiveness feels great now.

in my case i can play around 90% of the games i want to on my 4500U so the upgrade to a 6800U would allow access to the other 10% along being future proof against any new games.

 

[izaic3]

in my case i can play around 90% of the games i want to on my 4500U so the upgrade to a 6800U would allow access to the other 10% along being future proof against any new games.

Also some 6800u laptops have USB4 and so an egpu can be used later down the road, potentially prolonging the life of the laptop.

 

[moinmoin]

Yeah, USB4 is an even bigger deal. It's also even more rare.

 

[ahimsa42]

However, because AM5/DDR5 lacks its "Dali," it is brand expected that the low end will continue to use AM4 with Dali and Cezanne for at least a year after the arrival of AM5, and in notebooks they have Barcelo and Dali for this job.

i think that depends on what one means by low end. there is certainly very little difference between a 4500U cpu & a 6800U cpu but the ipgu's are vastly different. personally i don't care much about the cpu speed of modern APU's as everything i do is far more impacted by graphics performance than the cpu.

 

[Markfw]

What is the difference between a 6800U and a 6800H ?

 

[Abwx]

What is the difference between a 6800U and a 6800H ?

There is none, set apart that AMD did set their TDPs such that they dont overlay, 6800U is up to 25W while the 6800H can be configured only within a 35-45W range and eventually higher.

 

[igor_kavinski]

What is the difference between a 6800U and a 6800H ?

6800U is for lighter 14 inch notebooks and 6800H is for heavier/larger laptops with better cooling.

 

[moinmoin]

What is the difference between a 6800U and a 6800H ?

Binning. The U series is intended for up to 25W TDP, mostly 15W TDP and has to run well at that limit. The H series can go up to 45W TDP and is optimized for high frequency that come close to the desktop counterparts, especially HX.

 

[Markfw]

Binning. The U series is intended for up to 25W TDP, mostly 15W TDP and has to run well at that limit. The H series can go up to 45W TDP and is optimized for high frequency that come close to the desktop counterparts, especially HX.

I waited MONTHS for my 6800U laptop for $861, but gave up and got a 6850H for $1115. And I got my son a 6800H with a 3050 video for $750.

 

[igor_kavinski]

And I got my son a 6800H with a 3050 video for $750.

Amazing price.

 

[Kaluan]

Default TDP for 6000 U series is 28W now, not 25 like before. Given that Intel's been having it like that for a few gens now I get why they switched.

Sorry, my OCD kicked in, dunno why everyone keept saying 25 😅

 

[Markfw]

Amazing price.

it was one of the few microcenter deals that was on the internet.