Discussion Fallout 3/NV fan tries FO4 for the first time, and finds disappointment.

[Heartbreaker]

I Finally have a GPU upgrade that makes playing FO4 possible, so I'm a bit late to the FO4 party but I'm getting why people complained. I'm about 15 hours in, and NOT impressed.

In no particular order.

Dialogue system:

Seems like this:
Yes.
No.
Maybe/elaborate.
Snark.

And then be surprised by your own dialog.

When it used to be as many full sentences/paragraphs as needed, and you could see in detail which response you want to make.

Guns:

Guns now seem centered around modding, with much less old classic guns instead replaced by moddable pipe guns. This seems more like busy work than fun. In 15 hours, the VAST majority of Ammo found is .38 which only works in crappy pipe guns.

Armor:

Same as guns. A bunch of modding, crafting busy work, with no decent full armor found. Instead walking around various pieces.

Settlements:

Ugh. More crafting busywork. Do NOT want.

Quest Quality:

Most seem related to settlement busywork.

Visuals:

Actually seems worse to me. While there may have been technical improvements, I'm really not liking the look. Anti Aliasing in particular, has switched from MSAA to TAA. Yuk. The Volumetric lighting just looks like an ugly haze most of the time. I much prefer the crisp look of FO3/NV. Not sure why, but I get nauseous playing when I don't in FO3/NV. There are more times the game just grabs camera control, which may contribute, but maybe the TAA blur does as well. It's feels like a lot more than a couple of frames after a I stop before everything stops blurring.

Bugs:

The day one bugs they never fix are Bethesda's calling card. I was experiencing super long load times after a fast travel, this is common. I installed a mod, that increases the FPS on the load screen from locked 60FPS to 350 FPS, since they tied the load speed to frame rate? What? Also annoying there is an off setting to God Rays (source of much of the haze), that it overwrites and turns back on... I'm sure there are plenty more to come.

Gunplay:

This is one area of improvement. This definitely feels much smoother than FO3/NV, though I'm not here for a shooter experience. I lean heavily on VATS since I suck at FPS. Also I HATE how crits work now. The activation (on Controller) seems a bit flaky.

Bottoms line: More tedious busywork, and annoyances. I will probably try to finish it out, but it isn't fun like FO3/NV so far.

 

[Igo69]

A bit late? This game is old as earth now and when I played it it was mediocre. I managed to play it and finish it because of about 150 mods that I installed.

 

[sandorski]

I liked the customization of Weapons/Armour and the idea of Construction of bases, trade routes, and the like. I don't use VATS much, only when engaging a more challenging opponent, but it works well.

Couple things I found annoying were how short Fusion Cores lasted, didn't really seem like something that would be acceptable and the Settlement building menu insisted on WASD and didn't allow custom keybinding. Managing settlers could have been improved a lot too, but it worked ok.

Never finished the Main story, IIRC I am at the final choice for Nuka World and I think I either completed or am mostly finished the others. Contraptions I haven't really used. I have most of the Power Armor, but rarely use it due to the Fusion Core annoyance.

With Base building and the like it adds a ton of content/gameplay, but it also makes it need Multiplayer. It would be a better time that way. I liked the game a lot and wanted to 100% it, but spent so much time on these other things I just burnt out on the game before doing so.

All 3 Fallouts were good times, but 3 being my first will always be my favourite.

tl;dr I liked it.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

There are perks you can take to make fusion cores last a lot longer. I have over 100 at any given time. Some merchants restock them so you can buy them too. I must have 30 suits of power armor or more in the base game plus DLC. I like the jet pack as it makes areas far more accessible.

Dialogue is the worse, but meh. And of course you can mod this game to be unrecognizable from the OG. You can have Harley Quinn in outfit from the first Suicide Squad as a companion, running around cracking everything with her baseball bat. Sounds like her too.

Mix it up; do a melee and unarmed build and run around in the Grognak the Barbarian outfit going HAM on everything.

Great game for testing old and ultra budget hardware I pick up.

Over all a fun game. And like Skyrim mods make the possibilities nearly endless.

 

[nightspydk]

My god its one of the best games I played in the last maybe 10 years. Dont give up on it it will grow on you trust me

 

[Zenoth]

Sounds like you actually played a Bethesda game without mods.

You have some mega balls of steel, sir.

 

[nightspydk]

Well I did play Daggerfall heh
Joke aside it is perfectly playable unmodded. Not that mods might ad to the experience they do not make the core game.

 

[WelshBloke]

A bit late? This game is old as earth now and when I played it it was mediocre. I managed to play it and finish it because of about 150 mods that I installed.

Off topic but age doesn't soothe a broken heart! I'm still salty about DOW2 (and subsequent releases) being a different genre than DOW!

 

[GodisanAtheist]

What a timely topic, I'm about 45 hours into my first Fallout 4 vanilla run. In classic Bethsoft style, there are a lot of really good, terribly under baked ideas at play.

It feels more like borderlands on steroids than Fallout, so the game is fun but seems to have lost the core of its identity.

The Good:
-Gunplay is solid, to the point where I haven't really used VATS at all.
-Game is quite pretty.
-They writing can be surprisingly strong at times. Nick Valentine isn't just a good NPC by Bethsoft standards but a good NPC full stop. Kellogg was remarkably sympathetic despite having so little time being an antagonist.
-Settlement system is a natural fit for Fallout, feels good to have little islands of safety in an otherwise hostile wasteland.
-Visual identity of the game is still strong, really enjoed the Glowing Sea as well as the little towns around Boston.

The Bad:
-The world is flanderized at this point. Fallout 1/2/NV have a sort of groundedness to them, where society really felt like 200 years had passed since the bombs dropped and a new, weird civilization was growing from the ashes. Fallout 3 a little and 4 a lot have just gone all in on "Whoaaaaa look at that goofy alternate future thing, or another vault with a goofy experiment, or..."
- The Institute and Synths just dont feel like a good thematic fit with the world.
- The game is staggeringly unintuitive. I've never had to leave a game and go to Reddit to find out basic things about controls, functionality, next steps, etc as much as I've had to do with FO4.
- Dont really like how Power Armor works anymore. I get that they needed to do something that stopped PA from being the stealth archer of the FO games, but dinky single use fusion cores don't feel like the right solution.
- Quests are a straight up joke now. MMORPG level "Go here, kill that" level trash 95% of the time.
- Whole leveling system warmed over into a looter shooter system.
-The actual act of building settlements is an exercise in rage inducing frustration if you try to build anything more complicated than some ramshackle meth den.
-Settlements are woefully dependent on player input, requiring regular babysitting. Feels like a do a quest, then have to visit 3-4 settlements to sort out their issues, then do another quest... Feels like fluff after the initial thrill is gone.

It's weird, I don't dislike the game at all, it's actually a very fun game. It just doesn't really feel like Fallout anymore, it feels like Fallout: A Borderlands Joint.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I like the power armor, I have a suit for every occasion. High radiation, explosions, medical, extra carry capacity, jet pack, targeting HUD, etc.

It's a PITA until you have the resources. Having to repair it regularly is challenging until you have established supply lines, and looted and bought enough shipments of resources to keep up with the demand. Tato is the solution to adhesive, have a few places grow a bunch of those and you are all set. Fusion cores are simply not an issue for me. Firstly because a max armored Courser suit is more than good enough to travel in. And secondly, because until you have the resources and perks, it makes no sense to wear armor all the time.

You can build far beyond meth shacks, but again, you need the resources and perks for it. It is a way to encourage you to keep leveling long after you need to for combat or storyline. I saw some amazing structures with in a couple of weeks of the game releasing.

I don't care about that, I turn every settlement into a max killzone. I seldom even respond to the notifications of a settlement being attacked unless I want the carnage. The missle, laser, and heavy gun turrets every 10m do the heavy lifting. And I micro all of the settlers, equipping them with armor and weapons. The notifications that I failed to help defend it can suck it. I succeeded by making certain I don't even have to be there. I will repair any damaged turrets when I am in the area. Sometimes when I fast travel to help, the fight is almost over or over already.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Sounds like you actually played a Bethesda game without mods.

You have some mega balls of steel, sir.

I'm approaching mods reactively. Like the long load screen bug I have a mod for.

When I read about the Unofficial patch for FO4, it had a very mixed recommendation with half the people saying it introduces as many bugs as it fixes.

This is a stark contrast to the Unofficial patches for FO3/NV which are essentially universally recommended.

 

[Heartbreaker]

- The game is staggeringly unintuitive. I've never had to leave a game and go to Reddit to find out basic things about controls, functionality, next steps, etc as much as I've had to do with FO4.
- Dont really like how Power Armor works anymore. I get that they needed to do something that stopped PA from being the stealth archer of the FO games, but dinky single use fusion cores don't feel like the right solution.

This++

I have that first set of Power Armor, and pretty much the only way, I'm going to figure out how to fix it, is too read an online guide. So screw that... I'm not a big Power Armor fan anyway.

Similar for guns. The in game info tell you nothing of the AP cost of mods. So again I have to look up online guides to build lower AP cost guns. But I need guns, so I have to to read online guides.

- Quests are a straight up joke now. MMORPG level "Go here, kill that" level trash 95% of the time.
...
-The actual act of building settlements is an exercise in rage inducing frustration if you try to build anything more complicated than some ramshackle meth den.
-Settlements are woefully dependent on player input, requiring regular babysitting. Feels like a do a quest, then have to visit 3-4 settlements to sort out their issues, then do another quest... Feels like fluff after the initial thrill is gone.

I'm still early game, and quests are already in a tedious grindy loop with Garvey:

- Hey a settlement is in trouble, you should help them.
- I Go kill whoever is harassing them.
- Now they join up and I have to grind at fixing their settlement building problems they are too dumb to handle.

It's already repetitive ad nauseum.

It's weird, I don't dislike the game at all, it's actually a very fun game. It just doesn't really feel like Fallout anymore, it feels like Fallout: A Borderlands Joint.

More like Borderlands combined with the some kind of MMO farming resources grind.

I DESPISE grind in single player games. When I see it in an RPG, it like they have a short RPG, and padding the runtime forcing me to do tedious Resource Grinding.

I get that some people like resource gathering, building games, and I like RTS/building games at times, but I really don't like resource grinds in my RPGs...

I'll probably complete the main quests, but already, I'm ignoring Garvey and the settlements, because it just feels like one big, endless resource grind.

 

[Artorias]

I'm in the same boat as the OP. Started a first playthrough a couple months back and it just hasn't hooked me.

I did add a few lore friendly gun mods, and remodel of stock guns because of how awful they look.

Settlements are such a pain in the ass to build, and ultimately just a waste of time. If I didn't need to collect junk and connect settlements I wouldn't bother with that aspect of the game at all. No I don't want to defend a base that has 20+ turrets, handle it yourself you fools.

I haven't met Valentine yet, so maybe my opinion will change on the story, but I read far Harbour DLC is the much better story, I will probably fly through the main campaign and that DLC last.

Fallout NV is still the best game in the franchise.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

You're going the wrong way in time. Should have played the first two Fallout games instead. FO2 is especially awesome (best game in the series by far IMO), though the story follows directly from FO1. Oh well could be worse, you could have played FO76 instead. Now just waiting for Elder Scrolls 6 to be a disappointment too.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

I'm in the same boat as the OP. Started a first playthrough a couple months back and it just hasn't hooked me.

I did add a few lore friendly gun mods, and remodel of stock guns because of how awful they look.

Settlements are such a pain in the ass to build, and ultimately just a waste of time. If I didn't need to collect junk and connect settlements I wouldn't bother with that aspect of the game at all. No I don't want to defend a base that has 20+ turrets, handle it yourself you fools.

I haven't met Valentine yet, so maybe my opinion will change on the story, but I read far Harbour DLC is the much better story, I will probably fly through the main campaign and that DLC last.

Fallout NV is still the best game in the franchise.

I didn't think much of the Far Harbor DLC. The Nuka World DLC was interesting though.

 

[CP5670]

I actually liked Fallout 4 a lot. It's not as good as New Vegas and has some flaws (especially with the player dialogue) but still had plenty of interesting factions, companions, and side quests. Far Harbor is very good too (bring along Valentine for the full experience), but Nuka World is forgettable. The power armor is clunky to use but I can see why they did that. Actually I thought the game overall was far better than Starfield, which is completely generic outside of the main faction quests and has maybe two or three interesting characters in the whole game.

There are also some large DLC-size mods for it, like The Fens Sheriff Department.

- Hey a settlement is in trouble, you should help them.
- I Go kill whoever is harassing them.
- Now they join up and I have to grind at fixing their settlement building problems they are too dumb to handle.

It's already repetitive ad nauseum.

Just ignore these recurring quests or the settlement quests.There are plenty of regular interesting side quests too. Some I recall are the Cabot House, USS Constitution and Silver Shroud quests.

 

[CP5670]

Bugs:

The day one bugs they never fix are Bethesda's calling card. I was experiencing super long load times after a fast travel, this is common. I installed a mod, that increases the FPS on the load screen from locked 60FPS to 350 FPS, since they tied the load speed to frame rate? What? Also annoying there is an off setting to God Rays (source of much of the haze), that it overwrites and turns back on... I'm sure there are plenty more to come.

Get the "high fps physics fix" mod and "weapon debris crash fix." The game runs fine at 120fps for me with this, and with much shorter loading times.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

I like the power armor, I have a suit for every occasion. High radiation, explosions, medical, extra carry capacity, jet pack, targeting HUD, etc.

It's a PITA until you have the resources. Having to repair it regularly is challenging until you have established supply lines, and looted and bought enough shipments of resources to keep up with the demand. Tato is the solution to adhesive, have a few places grow a bunch of those and you are all set. Fusion cores are simply not an issue for me. Firstly because a max armored Courser suit is more than good enough to travel in. And secondly, because until you have the resources and perks, it makes no sense to wear armor all the time.

You can build far beyond meth shacks, but again, you need the resources and perks for it. It is a way to encourage you to keep leveling long after you need to for combat or storyline. I saw some amazing structures with in a couple of weeks of the game releasing.

I don't care about that, I turn every settlement into a max killzone. I seldom even respond to the notifications of a settlement being attacked unless I want the carnage. The missle, laser, and heavy gun turrets every 10m do the heavy lifting. And I micro all of the settlers, equipping them with armor and weapons. The notifications that I failed to help defend it can suck it. I succeeded by making certain I don't even have to be there. I will repair any damaged turrets when I am in the area. Sometimes when I fast travel to help, the fight is almost over or over already.

I've learned more from this one post than 45 hours of gameplay.

-I didn't know PA could be modded with actually useful abilities. I thought it was just the inmate strength/armor buff it's always been. OTOH it was pissing me off to no end that being in PA doesn't appear to naturally grant you radiation immunity like it did in prior games.

Game also has WAY too many PA sets. Like after my 5th set I kinda just gave up on collecting anymore.

-I didn't realize that purchasing a shipment was a thing, does that provide you with resources over time or is it a one time thing?

-Supply Lines... How do they work? I have everything set up as a hub and spoke, all settlements connect to sanctuary, then I always fast travel to sanctuary to offload my junk etc figuring that it will make my full workshop available to all my settlements. But online I can't seem to figure out why someone would link settlements serially but some people swear by it.

-My issue with settlement building is the first person perspective. I try to square something off with a preexisting structure but it turns out it's angled and I couldnt tell so now every other piece that "snap fit" to the original off center piece is off center too on and on and on. Now.my settlements will have a small walled off section of stuff I don't want damaged by raiders, and then a rooftop or vantage point absolutely *bristling* with turrets and that's about the effort I put in.

-My understanding is that settlements will auto lose an attack unless you physically show up to "see" the attackers lose to your deathtrap of turrets and armed civies. What is really aggravating is showing up to a settlement defense situation, killing all the attackers, getting no notification that the settlement was successfully defended, then fast traveling away only for a "settlement defense failed" thing to pop up cause apparently I missed some mutt or something and it wiped out the defenders after I left.

The settlement system is obviously one of Bethsoft's more brilliant but halfbaked ideas. It really hurts, cause the core concept is really good but the execution is severely lacking in places. World could have stood to have about half as many settlements, but really let us dive into them and turn them into proper outposts in the wastes.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

All merchants, both storefront and traveling will have shipments of materials you can buy. They restock after a period of time as well. You will see shipments in the buy list; wood, oil, lead, etc. It's like going to Home Depot, you buy supplies, use them up, buy more.

Power armor depending on the type can use fairly rare materials until you have the perks for breaking everything down to base materials. Walk the suit up to the rack (there is one already in the gas station next to your OG neighborhood, but they require little to build too) get out of it and you can then work on it. Each part will show condition and be repairable and upgradeable much like the weapons and armor workbenches. There are levels for every part of the suit so you can max out at F level mods. Early on when you are struggling for materials a bit, you might have a suit with a,b,c,d,e,f parts, later it will be all maxed out f. You can lead line a suit and add radiation scrubbers so you can travel the glowing sea more readily. Nothing gives you full immunity, but you can make RadAway with the perk, or buy it along with scavenging.

I always use up a fusion core completely. Otherwise you end up with a bunch of individual partially used cores in your inventory which is annoying. I don't leave cores in the suits because certain NPCs can use power armor and will take it. So always put back the partially used one you take out if you do take them out as I do. Don't forget even the paint jobs add certain mods. Biggest advantages of PA are the jet pack as it's a major time saver for getting up structures. And PA lets you drop from any height and not be injured. You can in fact get the same power Hulk has in both the ultimate destruction and Incredible Hulk games where your landing creates a shockwave area effect.

Settlements do not auto lose the attack because you didn't show up. Perhaps during the Preston meme "Another settlement needs our help" but not once it is just notifications that sunshine co-op, etc. is being attacked go help defend them. Micro the settlers with weapons, ammo, armor, and set up turrets with interlocking fields of fire and they can handle even super mutants no problem. If all you equip a settler with is a launcher and rockets, that's what they'll use next time there's an attack. Some will loot off the attackers but it hasn't been a real issue in any of my playthroughs. Always take away the crap weapons they have when you meet them and break those down for base components when you have the perk.

Supply lines I am capricious with. But all of them are connected to at least 2-3 other settlements and there is an unbroken chain amongst all of them so that no group or individual place is isolated from others. Make certain they all have scrap stations with settlers assigned to them. Build the various stores and food stands too. Everything, even each crop you plant, you assign an NPC to. The stores will generate caps for you, and make sure to invest in them as well. You will see the option when interacting with them to invest in the business.

Microing is where the game's charm is for me. The loot&shoot Borderlands mechanic supports the craft and create system. I take everything back and scrap it at the workbenches for materials I need. Even a hot plate or microscope are suddenly useful when you have the perk to scrap them. I carry a bunch of junk back and transfer it all to the workshop. Now it is all base materials to use as needed.

 

[Heartbreaker]

All merchants, both storefront and traveling will have shipments of materials you can buy. They restock after a period of time as well. You will see shipments in the buy list; wood, oil, lead, etc. It's like going to Home Depot, you buy supplies, use them up, buy more.

Power armor depending on the type can use fairly rare materials until you have the perks for breaking everything down to base materials. Walk the suit up to the rack (there is one already in the gas station next to your OG neighborhood, but they require little to build too) get out of it and you can then work on it. Each part will show condition and be repairable and upgradeable much like the weapons and armor workbenches. There are levels for every part of the suit so you can max out at F level mods. Early on when you are struggling for materials a bit, you might have a suit with a,b,c,d,e,f parts, later it will be all maxed out f. You can lead line a suit and add radiation scrubbers so you can travel the glowing sea more readily. Nothing gives you full immunity, but you can make RadAway with the perk, or buy it along with scavenging.

I always use up a fusion core completely. Otherwise you end up with a bunch of individual partially used cores in your inventory which is annoying. I don't leave cores in the suits because certain NPCs can use power armor and will take it. So always put back the partially used one you take out if you do take them out as I do. Don't forget even the paint jobs add certain mods. Biggest advantages of PA are the jet pack as it's a major time saver for getting up structures. And PA lets you drop from any height and not be injured. You can in fact get the same power Hulk has in both the ultimate destruction and Incredible Hulk games where your landing creates a shockwave area effect.

Settlements do not auto lose the attack because you didn't show up. Perhaps during the Preston meme "Another settlement needs our help" but not once it is just notifications that sunshine co-op, etc. is being attacked go help defend them. Micro the settlers with weapons, ammo, armor, and set up turrets with interlocking fields of fire and they can handle even super mutants no problem. If all you equip a settler with is a launcher and rockets, that's what they'll use next time there's an attack. Some will loot off the attackers but it hasn't been a real issue in any of my playthroughs. Always take away the crap weapons they have when you meet them and break those down for base components when you have the perk.

Supply lines I am capricious with. But all of them are connected to at least 2-3 other settlements and there is an unbroken chain amongst all of them so that no group or individual place is isolated from others. Make certain they all have scrap stations with settlers assigned to them. Build the various stores and food stands too. Everything, even each crop you plant, you assign an NPC to. The stores will generate caps for you, and make sure to invest in them as well. You will see the option when interacting with them to invest in the business.

Microing is where the game's charm is for me. The loot&shoot Borderlands mechanic supports the craft and create system. I take everything back and scrap it at the workbenches for materials I need. Even a hot plate or microscope are suddenly useful when you have the perk to scrap them. I carry a bunch of junk back and transfer it all to the workshop. Now it is all base materials to use as needed.

Ummm, that again, just sounds like one endless resource grind game, not an RPG... I'm having none of it. If I want to play Simcity, or Civilization, I'll play those.

Last mission I went on for Preston, was to clear an area and set up a beacon. Which I did for the XP, but there is no base set up there, which would no doubt be the next step. I think I will swing by and shut/tear down the beacon, and keep playing the parts of the game that play like an RPG.

Instead of the resource grind, last night I checked out Valentine Detective Agency and rescued him from a bunch of mobsters, then together we started following Dogmeat on the trail of some potential kidnappers of my kid. Valentine is a very cool character. This is what I want in an RPG. Interesting characters, and meaningful quest/story.

Not poorly implemented city builder with a horrible interface that literally makes me nauseous trying to place walls. If they wanted to make this a serious feature at the very least they should have made an appropriate, overhead UI, where you can just quickly draw out a line of walls...

 

[CP5670]

The only building I did was to decorate my diamond city home. There are mods that add a lot more stuff to place, like nuka cola cabinets, institute furniture, etc.

 

[nightspydk]

Spend a lot of time building settlements and getting everything right with defenses and guards patrolling rooftops of several story buildings, Was frustrating at times, but eventually when everything panned out it was an awesome experience watching people tending chores and returning to bed or the bar. It can be fun if you have the patience. Sure there is room for improvement

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Life is too short to force yourself to play a game that isn't your cup of tea, move on to one that is.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Spend a lot of time building settlements and getting everything right with defenses and guards patrolling rooftops of several story buildings, Was frustrating at times, but eventually when everything panned out it was an awesome experience watching people tending chores and returning to bed or the bar. It can be fun if you have the patience. Sure there is room for improvement

Again. That's "The Sims" or "Sim City" not an RPG.

I'm ignoring the Sim City aspect and just playing as an RPG.

 

[nightspydk]

Lots of games combine elements of several genres. Like rts with rpg elements. Some there the best games I played and that thinking out of the box is what creates new ideas.

To be fair I ignored it on my first playthrough as well, but then I had a semi new experience playing for a second time.

Each to his though sure