Question FSR 3.0 - AMD's Answer to DLSS 3.0 has landed

[GodisanAtheist]

AMD FidelityFX Super Resolution 3 to Officially Launch Tomorrow, Forspoken and Immortals of Avenum as Launch Titles

AMD has confirmed that FidelityFX Super Resolution 3 (FSR 3) will launch tomorrow, September 29, with Forspoken and Immortals of Aveum listed as first game titles to support it. The news was announced by Frank Azor over at Twitter, with the promise of more titles coming soon. In case you missed...

www.techpowerup.com

At work, so I cannot access the DSO Gaming preview of FSR 3.0, but the general impressions out there early on are reasonably positive. It basically sounds like the worst part of FSR 3.0 is FSR 2.0: the fake frames are doing their job, but the upscaling tech still leaves something to be desired.

Once again I will state that I am all for any tech that will keep e-waste out of the bin for a few years and let older cards that might have gone to the scrap heap get a second life in either their existing boxes or as used upgrade options for folks on truly antiquated hardware; however we are already beginning to see the effects this type of upscaling and frame generation crap is having on contemporary releases with upscaling already being automatically activated as part of preset-settings. I'm sure we're not far from having frame gen activated out of the box as well, and only a little more time before the option to turn it off disappears entirely.

On one hand, a red letter day for AMD, on the other a dark day for PC gaming as a whole.

 

[exquisitechar]

Well, it looks like the framegen part is good. Way lower overhead than Nvidia’s:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1707846540830658581

Unfortunately, AMD’s upscaler is quite a lot worse than Nvidia’s.

 

[pj-]

In Starfield FSR3 at 3440x1440 seems to provide a big fps uplift, though the smoothness of movement is not massively improved

at 4k the visual artifacts are extreme to the point the feature is unusable

 

[coercitiv]

at 4k the visual artifacts are extreme to the point the feature is unusable

We'll get to know more soon about the particulars of the implementation, but the little I know from Digital Foundry is that generated frames are an async compute job for the card, which should mean that FMF is probably less work to do at 1080p/1440p than it is at 4K. Couple that with the massive drop in FPS @ 4K and you get a much lower base FPS from which frame generation can work with and "hide behind".

One thing AMD should have done, and awkwardly chose to push under the rug with a stealthy launch, is a proper presentation for the media. When they talked to Digital Foundy , they told them that frame gen is recommended with a baseline FPS of 60+. The purpose is not fluid performance for someone struggling to get 30FPS, but rather improved fluidity for someone who already has a playable experience and would like to take advantage of their 120Hz+ high refresh monitor. This is the correct way to thing about frame generation, unfortunately for AMD/Nvidia it's also the way that gets people less excited about the tech (the way they should be imho).

Therefore, If I had a change of heart and wanted to make use of this feature, I would not use it on 6800XT @ 4K to aim for perceived 60+FPS. Instead the aim would be 1440p with game settings tuned so that I hit a "fluid" 60-90FPS baseline before frame gen. Enabling FMF from this here would take me to 120+ FPS, which would feed nicely in my 165Hz monitor. From what I know AMD wants us to also have vsync enabled with FMF, IIRC they stated it helps them pace the frames better.

Here's the video I drew my information from, I haven't had the chance to read new articles on the tech since FSR3 came out yesterday. In fact, now that I looked to timestamp the video, AMD recommends a 70+ FPS baseline for 4K before enabling FMF:

 

[DAPUNISHER]

It's all in the link @SolidQ provided yesterday

https://gpuopen.com/fsr3-in-games-technical-details/

I cranked every.single.settings. to the max in red dead 2 at 1080 using the HYPR-RX suite. Played about an hour. By the time I was finished vram allocation was over 11GB and it was using almost 10GB. Average fps was over 100. Biggest drop was into the 60s near rushing water, with the physics maxed as stated. I don't know what to make of the experience. I have never seen RDR2 be a ram hog.

Again, it felt like I was playing on a freesync monitor. I use a controller for these games, so with anti-lag+ I don't feel any input lag. I will bite the bullet and hook it to my 165Hz freesync premium panel and mess around today. Maybe at high refresh with vsync things will be different. As I was getting 100 and upwards of 120fps in Starfield in most indoor areas.

 

[DeathReborn]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1708085292807389555

FSR3 doesn't work with VRR it seems. Daniel Owen also did some testing on this.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

So is FSR3 better than FSR2 or not? Is the only difference basically frame generation, or did they also improve image quality?

 

[coercitiv]

Daniel Owen also did some testing on this.

In the context of VRR support, he starts testing for motion smoothness with rapid mouse movements. AMD stated they are disabling FMF during rapid mouse movement to prevent artifacts such as disocclusion. Again, the source is the DF video (31:55). I did not spot this info in the AMD tech brief on gpuopen.com

Disabling FMF during rapid mouse movement is yet another indicator the feature was built to work on systems that are already pushing 60+ FPS, so it is there to complement high refresh monitors.

So is FSR3 better than FSR2 or not? Is the only difference basically frame generation, or did they also improve image quality?

We don't know if the upscaler has changed. We do know they've improved the low latency feature with Antilag+ and they've added FSR Native AA, which is something I wish they had done since the first day of FSR2. (DLAA equivalent)

 

[WelshBloke]

So is this just baked into the latest drivers? I'm not seeing any settings for it in 23.9.3

 

[SolidQ]

Seems AFMF more fits with gamepad.
Seems there bug, you need re enable AFMF in driver, while in the game, to fix 1% and inputlag.

 

[uzzi38]

@coercitiv disabling FMF with motion only takes place with the driver level version, not the in-game version. The latter is always enabled.

 

[Aapje]

So is this just baked into the latest drivers? I'm not seeing any settings for it in 23.9.3

It's in the beta driver. Keep in mind that there are two versions of this, similar to how you have RSR upscaling that doesn't require game support and FSR 1/2 that have to be built into the game.

Some of the tests are with the version built into Forspoken and some with the lower quality driver-version (Fluid Motion Frames). It seems that the latter requires RDNA 3.

 

[DeathReborn]

TPU did a little FSR3 testing in Forspoken.

Forspoken: FSR 3 Review - AMD's Frame Generation Tested

Forspoken has been updated with official support for AMD's FidelityFX Super Resolution 3 (FSR 3), which includes their new software-based Frame Generation technology, Fluid Motion Frames. In this mini-review, we examine and compare the image quality and performance improvements provided by AMD...

www.techpowerup.com

This bit is worth noting.

The second most noticeable difference is in the extra steps needed in order to properly apply AMD's FSR 3 Frame Generation. When using DLSS Frame Generation you can just toggle the feature on and you are ready to go without any issues under the hood, so no extra steps needed. If you try to do the same with AMD's Frame Generation solution, you'll get an unstable frame pacing with constant stuttering even at high framerates, which will result in a very sluggish and stuttery experience. In order to avoid these issues, it is highly recommended to turn on Vsync and set a custom framerate limit a few frames below your monitors refresh rate, for example 58 FPS for 60 Hz or 142 FPS for 144 Hz. It is important to not hit the limit of your monitor's refresh rate to avoid an additional 30% of input latency increase from enabling Vsync. Also, FSR 3 Frame Generation in the current state does not work properly with Variable Refresh Rate (VRR), G-Sync or Freesync technologies.

 

[AdamK47]

The big problem with these software implementations is that I see them becoming replacements (in the eyes of marketing departments) for advancements in hardware technology that traditionally bring out good performance improvements over the previous generations.

Marketing and PR teams are keen on utilizing influencers with YouTube channels that work the YouTube algorithm. Channels with constant streams of content related to the latest trendy buzz. They know hardware tech channels will provide content on their software implementations simply because the channel wants to churn out relevant content for working the algorithm. The mass hit across all tech channels on the same damn subject brings awareness of their implementations to the forefront much better than any paid advertisement.

It's portrayed as an advancement in rendering technology when in reality it'll be used for nefarious ends. Influencers constantly talk about it. Putting the spotlight on the software while simultaneously taking it off the hardware.

Look at recent implementations. Game optimization are relegated to upscaling and frame generation. A crutch that wouldn't exist had these not existed.

Be prepared for the hardware tech advancement malaise as you eat up all this viral content and spread it around.

I really want to look forward to the next generation of graphics cards. I'm more than a little bit worried now that AI is taking up all the manufacturing capabilities due to their high profit margins. We have these regressive software implementations that I feel will be used to placate us.

 

[Mopetar]

I think the AI bubble will at least deflate a bit if it doesn't burst outright. Even though there's some value in the ideas, too many players are getting into the market for all of them to survive.

There's probably some new fresh hell for PC gamers to experience after that. I can't imagine either AMD or NVidia wanting to give up on the sweet, sweet margins that they've been able to get due to first mining and then the AI gold rush.

 

[Aapje]

@AdamK47

What is holding back the manufacture of top tier AI chips is a shortage of CoWoS interposers. That fortunately doesn't impact gaming chips.

Right now we are in a pretty bad situation:
- Nvidia is quite happy with high margins and relatively low sales
- AMD messed up the clock speeds of RDNA3, so it is hard for them to attack Nvidia's market share, also because Nvidia already showed that they will lower the prices to keep their market share
- Intel messed up with the drivers

All of this can change for the next generation though, if RDNA4 turns out well, or Intel is able to produce a competitive product. Intel in particular needs sales and having few people upgrade their system also impacts their CPU sales.

 

[Heartbreaker]

HWUB:

Pros:
Lower overhead, so It gives slightly higher Frame generation boost.
2D UI is applied after frame generation, so there are no HUD/UI artifacts in FSR Frame generation. Not sure why NVidia didn't do this...

Cons:
FSR falls apart with VRR, pretty much need VSYNC to use it.
Gap between FSR and DLSS upscaling quality persists.
FSR Generated frames have more artifacting than NVidia frames.
Latency is worse than for DLSS frame gen because it doesn't seem to work with anti-lag+

Bottom line:
Needs a lot of work. It has even narrower use case than DLSS FG.

 

[Panino Manino]

Look at recent implementations. Game optimization are relegated to upscaling and frame generation. A crutch that wouldn't exist had these not existed.

This seems a Chicken and Egg problem, games and game engines were already becoming unacceptably unnoptimized.
I don't believe developers would truly fix their games and engines would become lightweight even without this reconstruction tricks.

 

[AdamK47]

This seems a Chicken and Egg problem, games and game engines were already becoming unacceptably unnoptimized.
I don't believe developers would truly fix their games and engines would become lightweight even without this reconstruction tricks.

The most egregious recent example that comes to mind is Immortals of Aveum. Highly reliant on upscaling. Without it, a 3050 or 3060 would have an impossible time playing it. Forget using native 4K on anything, including the 4090. In game setting between high and low do little to nothing on increasing frame rate.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I look forward to the day when game studios throw their art assets and audio data on their AI cluster and let it design the best optimized version of their dream game according to their design specs. Maybe a week or two later, the entire game is ready for play testing. After that, it's just a matter of tweaking things here and there and getting the game ready for prime time.

 

[SolidQ]

AFMF got support for RX 6xxx series

 

[igor_kavinski]

AMD enables Fluid Motion Frames support for Radeon RX 6000 series - VideoCardz.com

AFMF now for Radeon RX 6000 series AMD has released a new preview driver for Fluid Motion Frames technology. This driver, which builds upon last week’s release, introduces support for the Radeon RX 6000 series. This technology support has now been extended to both desktop and mobile graphics...

videocardz.com

Take that, slimy nGreedia scum!

 

[BFG10K]

The big problem with these software implementations is that I see them becoming replacements (in the eyes of marketing departments) for advancements in hardware technology that traditionally bring out good performance improvements over the previous generations.

Exactly right. When this first came out we were told it was just to "extend the life of slower cards" and "allow slower cards to play games they otherwise couldn't". But when 4070's performance slides came out using DLSS 3, NV's true agenda was on display.

Make no mistake, Jensen's ultimate squirting wet dream is to release GPUs with 640 kilobytes of RAM that upscale from DOS resolutions like 320x240 and interpolate 95% of the frames on the screen. Then charge $5000 for the privilege of the "aye eye" reaming.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

If you are able to see this Xitter post enjoy the laugh as much as I did. Comical edit of Digital Founder's Edition coverage of frame gen on red vs green. You can guess why it's funny. If it isn't funny to you, you should probably buy a sense of humor instead of an overpriced RTX GPU.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1710430545346191534

 

[psolord]

I did a run of Forspoken on my rx6600+2500k system. This run was very revealing for me. The system is a frankenPC as you understand, with parts more than a decade apart. Therefor the pcie bus speed aint helping. Also cpu limits galore in this one.

However, fsr3 helped a lot to smooth out the experience. Here's the video if anyone cares (non monetized)

I start with straight 1080p high, where the system runs badly from 30-45fps. At 2:00 I enable fsr3 and lo and behold, it gets much much smoother, closing to 60fps most of the time.

Son, color me impressed. To be frank, I also tested this on the 4070ti+12400f a few days back and I was not impressed, as image quality was evidently lower, compared to the dlss2 help that this system was capable of. In situations like this one however, I think we have a winner.

Super curious to test afmf now.