Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.



Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Model	Code-Name	Date	TDP	Node	Tiles	Main Tile	CPU	LP E-Core	LLC	GPU	Xe-cores
Core Ultra 100U	Meteor Lake	Q4 2023	15 - 57 W	Intel 4 + N5 + N6	4	tCPU	2P + 8E	2	12 MB	Intel Graphics	4
?	Lunar Lake	Q4 2024	17 - 30 W	N3B + N6	2	CPU + GPU & IMC	4P + 4E	0	8 MB	Arc	8
?	Panther Lake	Q1 2026 ?	?	Intel 18A + N3E	3	CPU + MC	4P + 8E	4	?	Arc	12

Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

	Meteor Lake	Arrow Lake (20A)	Arrow Lake (N3B)	Arrow Lake Refresh (N3B)	Lunar Lake	Panther Lake
Platform	Mobile H/U Only	Desktop Only	Desktop & Mobile H&HX	Desktop Only	Mobile U Only	Mobile H
Process Node	Intel 4	Intel 20A	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	Intel 18A
Date	Q4 2023	Q1 2025 ?	Desktop-Q4-2024 H&HX-Q1-2025	Q4 2025 ?	Q4 2024	Q1 2026 ?
Full Die	6P + 8P	6P + 8E ?	8P + 16E	8P + 32E	4P + 4E	4P + 8E
LLC	24 MB	24 MB ?	36 MB ?	?	8 MB	?
tCPU	66.48
tGPU	44.45
SoC	96.77
IOE	44.45
Total	252.15

Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake



As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)

 

[mikk]

it's limited to 6+8 for MTL-P. we don't know MTL-S core count yet.

We know it: https://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content...ke-Arrow-Lake-Lunar-Lake_-Hot-Chips-34_16.png

MTL scales up to 6+8 no matter if MTL-P or MTL-S.

 

[IntelUser2000]

I'm not yet convinced. When reality starts to set in during circumstances like this, the first instinct of many investors is to double down on cost cutting. Gelsinger will undoubtably be facing pressure to cut more than he already has, and it remains to be seen to what degree he's willing to hold the line. Though on the plus side, I recently heard that the Optane engineers (or at least many of them) have been redistributed throughout the company, so at least that wasn't an excuse for layoffs.

And that should have been the normalcy for all companies. The founders of the company HP was known for very human focused management. When times got tough rather than resorting to layoffs as with virtually every company, they reduced pay temporarily for everyone for example. There are more than one way of doing things and an obvious better and worse ways.

 

[mikk]

If Intel decided to give mobile priority over desktop, I would think they would want to use TSMC 3nm over Intel 20A. Maybe Intel 20A does have better perf characteristics, but at the time of planning, it would have made much more sense to use TSMC than their own internal nodes that have had issues lately with getting delayed, imo.

Much more sense because? When it comes to timelines Intel 20A makes more sense. They are likely launching MTL-P in Q3/Q4 2023 and roughly 1 year latey they can launch ARL-P on 20A. Also for Intel it makes more sense to go into production with smaller chips on a new node. The highend ARL-S compute tile is rumored to have 8+32 cores. ARL-P on the leaked roadmap roadmap only got 6+8 cores. For Intel it's less risky and easier to go into initial 20A production with 6+8 core tiles rather than 8+32.

 

[IntelUser2000]

So reddit rumors were wrong and MLID is just to be ignored at this point.

You know who's a good leaker? Raichu.

Not really. the difference in IPC between gracemont and zen 4/golden cove is around 30-40%. it's not unbelievable that they can reach that after a couple of generations.

The difference between the two is ~50%. Yes it's plausible by Arrowlake timeframe, Skymont will perform like Golden Cove, or likely even better but Lion Cove will perform faster still.

I do believe the gap between them will decrease though, which will silence the "E core spam" critics because it'll become easier to manage the two plus scheduling will improve.

The stopping of E cores at 16 starts to sound like how they expected mobile CPUs to quickly scale to 32+ cores, and it pretty much stopped at 8. Like, these people who are in charge of graphs needs to be put down a notch at least. All they think is everything will scale the way it scaled before, and linearly. Similar minded people were put in charge of "GHz wars" at Intel.

I don't expect Hyperthreading to be enabled on the E cores. It just doesn't make as much sense. I think the big.little concept is limited, where you use the little cores for lowering power use in light load. I think this concept of maximizing performance has lot to be tapped into.

You further specialize the cores for maximum performance. Apple seems to be taking one approach, where since A10(big.little) the performance of the big cores have went up drastically, but the little cores are still meant for power saving. It should be a two-in-one punch of maximizing P cores for low thread count and maximizing E cores for high thread count.

The way they can use the hybrid concept to maximize performance is numerous. It's a low hanging fruit.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Like force OEMs that use Lunar Lake to use up to 15 watt. This ensures that Intel chips have great battery life and pref. If they do this mainstream users and reviewers will claim Intel is efficient again. It's rumoured that Lunar is the "little guy". Also if Lunar uses Lion Cove it should still be very powerful chip at 15 watts.

Nah, this is not a disadvantage, because it allows for design flexibility. If it was fixed, then Intel would have to offer multiple different chips just differing in TDP settings. Or you'd have one laptop design trying to serve all segments.

You can't fault them for the reviewers being retarded. Perhaps more education for the press?

One thing they can do is encourage manufacturers to be more open in what power settings their laptop uses. So Performance = 30W, Normal = 18W, Power Saving = 12W.

 

[Geddagod]

Also want to add, apparently Lion Cove is NOT Royal Core, so seems like MLID is wrong once again!

 

[DrMrLordX]

It's no more right either.

Bingo.

 

[coercitiv]

Thing is 5800X3D results are all over the map for games.

Are they? Here's a graph for 5800X3D vs. 7600X and another one for 7600X vs. 13600K. If we were to mirror the second graph to have 7600X as the second comparison point, it would look quite similar in terms of overall distribution.

At higher resolutions current CPUs can push really high frame rates so I'm not sure of the benefit.

That is true for all value and midrange CPUs making high-end SKUs look bad in real gaming conditions.

Also for some reason clock is 400MHz lower than the normal version.

The reason was a shared voltage rail for core and cache. That's been addressed in Zen 4, cache has it's own voltage plane.

 

[dullard]

News coming in 3 days

Yeah, Intel announced that 9 days ago. https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...tform-roadmap-investor-webinar.html#gs.kkz4nw

That is why I was asking (In the Raptor Lake Official thread) for a pause in the declarations of product launches/delays until we get that update. Posts such as this one from DrMrLordX that already declare a delay and timing just days before we get the official account are only intended to spread misinformation:

Ew what? That would be awful. Meteor Lake is already delayed. Late Q4 2023/Q1 2024 is already bad.

There certainly could be a delay. But declaring that a delay will happen now is just disingenuous.

 

[Hitman928]

Guessing they got cold feet. The new date btw is approx 2 weeks from Q4 earnings report so they definately won't say anything interesting now.

A little strange you would need to postpone a webinar due to covid policies. Unless a bunch of people on the production team all got Covid?

 

[mikk]

	Process Node	Transistors	Die Size		Execution Units	ALU	RT units	TGP	Graphics Clock	FP32 (TFlops)
A370M	N6	7.2 B	157 mm2	8 Xe Cores	128 EU	1024 ALU	8	35 - 50W	1550 MHz	4.2 TF
GT2	N5	?	?	4 Xe Cores	64 EU	512 ALU	?	?	?	?
GT3	N5	?	?	8 Xe Cores	128 EU	1024 ALU	?	?	?	?

Since Kepler leaks the tGPU info on upcoming Meteor Lake, I have compiled the comparison chart of tGPU and A370M, make me think how much power MTL's tGPU needed, any ideas?

There is no indication of a GT3 for Meteor Lake, github only has GT2 entries for mobile. It makes no sense, otherwise we would have to assume MTL only comes with 64EUs against 96 EUs on the previous generation. Kepler also claimed RDNA3 ships with a broken Shader Pre-Fetching which AMD denied. Kepler is not a good source. He claims something without any source and people believe in him.

 

[Henry swagger]

MLID says Meteor Lake is in trouble. Desktop pushed to 2024, only lower core count configurations, likely not able to compete on the high end.

Notebook should still come out in 2023.

Tom seems to be hinting at some potential problems with "Intel 4" and casts some doubt on "Intel 3" as well, but it may just be speculation, and the problems may be on the design end of things, and not on process technology side of things.

This basement dwelling fraud should be banned

 

[Geddagod]

Just because someone believes that Intel is NOT god, does not make him a troll. You are doing pretty good at coming close to that though.

Nope MLID is just a <redacted> leaker.
Check out my (very generous) estimation of MLID leak accuracy for Intel at 66%. Though more accurately it should be <60% after I make some corrections.
This is in comparison of other leakers, like Raichu, who have 90% accuracies from the who's who of leaks.
While obviously both of these estimations are unprofessional and bound to have mistakes, the general point is that MLID is NOT up to par with other leakers.
What's even worse is that he refuses to admit his mistakes, deletes videos where he got leaks wrong, and has a humongous ego.
Plus he rips off other leakers leaks, his most recent MTL/ARL leaks from his 2 most recent leak videos about those products are a great example of that:

• ARL P uses 20A while ARL S uses TSMC 3nm - ripped off Raichu
• MTL might have a limited desktop presence and coincide with a quick launch of ARL - ripped off Raichu
• MTL low end ARL high end - ripped off Kopite

Hell he was ripping off Raichu even before he started leaking these 2 next generations, with the information that ADL might be able to compete with the 5950x and not just the 5900x....
His leaks are bad, his attitude is bad, and he is constantly puts out super optimistic stuff for both Intel AND AMD and then claims "delays" or "failed execution" caused massive problems, or that he knew it all along:

• Zen 3 launch date (this might have an inkling of truth in it due to covid)
• Zen 4 IPC figures
• RDNA 3 clock speeds
• Idk what his excuse is going to be for Zen 5 but he also claimed that AMD is going to push that out at the end of 2023 when AMD confirmed it's a 2024 product (this one isn't that bad though tbh, time frame is pretty close)
• His recent MTL leak
• His entire ARC drama and the mythical A780

Also it's not just @Henry swagger who thinks MLID is pretty bad, a lot of people do too. There's a reason his leaks get laughed out of the room in many tech discussion forums outside youtube and twitter.
I'm also pretty sure Exist50 thinks MLID is a bad leaker too, but I doubt you're willing to confront him the same way you did Henry swagger considering how Exist50 demolished your Sapphire Rapids vs Genoa power draw estimations in the Intel Current and Future Lakes thread around a month ago. Funny you said he was trolling you too....
I just think it's ironic that you accuse other people (including me at one point, I think, on one of my first couple of posts ever in the Anandtech Forums) of trolling.

Profanity is not allowed in the technical forums. Thanks, Moderator Shmee

 

[Exist50]

Nope MLID is just a <redacted> leaker.
Check out my (very generous) estimation of MLID leak accuracy for Intel at 66%. Though more accurately it should be <60% after I make some corrections.
This is in comparison of other leakers, like Raichu, who have 90% accuracies from the who's who of leaks.
While obviously both of these estimations are unprofessional and bound to have mistakes, the general point is that MLID is NOT up to par with other leakers.
What's even worse is that he refuses to admit his mistakes, deletes videos where he got leaks wrong, and has a humongous ego.
Plus he rips off other leakers leaks, his most recent MTL/ARL leaks from his 2 most recent leak videos about those products are a great example of that:

• ARL P uses 20A while ARL S uses TSMC 3nm - ripped off Raichu
• MTL might have a limited desktop presence and coincide with a quick launch of ARL - ripped off Raichu
• MTL low end ARL high end - ripped off Kopite

Hell he was ripping off Raichu even before he started leaking these 2 next generations, with the information that ADL might be able to compete with the 5950x and not just the 5900x....
His leaks are bad, his attitude is bad, and he is constantly puts out super optimistic stuff for both Intel AND AMD and then claims "delays" or "failed execution" caused massive problems, or that he knew it all along:

• Zen 3 launch date (this might have an inkling of truth in it due to covid)
• Zen 4 IPC figures
• RDNA 3 clock speeds
• Idk what his excuse is going to be for Zen 5 but he also claimed that AMD is going to push that out at the end of 2023 when AMD confirmed it's a 2024 product (this one isn't that bad though tbh, time frame is pretty close)
• His recent MTL leak
• His entire ARC drama and the mythical A780

Also it's not just @Henry swagger who thinks MLID is pretty bad, a lot of people do too. There's a reason his leaks get laughed out of the room in many tech discussion forums outside youtube and twitter.
I'm also pretty sure Exist50 thinks MLID is a bad leaker too, but I doubt you're willing to confront him the same way you did Henry swagger considering how Exist50 demolished your Sapphire Rapids vs Genoa power draw estimations in the Intel Current and Future Lakes thread around a month ago. Funny you said he was trolling you too....
I just think it's ironic that you accuse other people (including me at one point, I think, on one of my first couple of posts ever in the Anandtech Forums) of trolling.

You could hit the character limit describing his mispredictions with Meteor Lake alone. To add on a few more, first he claimed it was using Ocean Cove (despite Ocean Cove being dead when he made that claim), then he insisted he actually knew it was Redwood Cove. Obviously he's flip flopped several times on MTL desktop, but he still seems to be insisting that Redwood Cove will be ~15-20% IPC, which is hilarious.

 

[A///]

I just saw some weird predictions from MLID. He even quotes adored tv! And the predictions are completely off the mark! He says MTL is gonna have 20% IPC gains! I say BS. Are they really that bad at math OR are they just messing with us?

your first mistake was watching either of those two morons.

 

[Joe NYC]

No he isnt at 100

Excuse me, I was off by 2 months. He is 99 and 10 months.

he is a Putin apologist, you dont want Gelsinger to be anything like him. otherwise Gelsinger is 100% conceding territory to AMD never to return.......

It seems you can't tell the difference between winning and losing. Kissinger drove a wedge between Russia and China and paved the way to US dominance for the next 50 years.

The current clown show running the US State Department drove Russia and China into an alliance that is stronger than the US + NATO combined, losing that dominance of the US.

So, there you have it: Winning vs Losing, and you can't tell which is which.

We will see if Gelsinger is more like Kissinger or Blinken.

Edit: To go with Analogy where:
Intel = US
AMD = Russia
TSMC = China

Will Gelsinger drive a wedge between AMD and TSMC by giving TSMC a lot of Intel business, or will Intel Foundry push TSMC into an alliance with AMD?

 

[Markfw]

Literally on the leak you were quoting, it says Granite Rapids AP, targeting ~2X performance of EMR-64C.
And also I'm pretty sure, at the very least, 2X SPR is enough to beat Genoa.
SPR 56C scores ~65K on CBR23 MT while Genoa scores 115K apparently.
In GB5, 2X the 56C SPR would be 108% of top end Genoa as well.
These are the only MT scores I can find comparing the two. If you can find some that show otherwise, I would be happy to hear them....

The key word there is TARGETING. So the best they came come up with is a TARGET of 2x a currently available CPU

I will believe it when I see hard facts and benchmarks to prove it. In the meantime, Intel is hurting.... THAT IS FACT.

 

[mderbarimdiger]

And why is it that you felt the need to post this ? I don't believe that a FUTURE chip is what they are saying. That is ON TOPIC. You are a relatively new poster and you felt the need to insult my intelligence with this post ?

I'm sorry if that came across as insulting your intelligence, Discussing Genoa VS SPR, or analysis of benchmarks is not something that belongs for dumb folks, and i dont doubt your knowledge, hands on experience of tuning servers, or your understanding of energy consumption and performance analysis, etc.

However, "the reason i felt the need to post this" is because i felt:
1. you are not in sync with the conversation here.
2. you are way to much attached to the facts that "Intel sucks, intel sucks, genoa is super, others are biased towards intel, intel sucks, i am not biased, i am based on fact, i am not for example claiming that genoa is 5X better than SPR, intel sucks, i need facts!"

I do agree that Genoa is significantly ahead of SPR, and i agree that many people are biased, and i agree that intel servers are in bad shape now, yet i still feel disturbed when those sentiments are somehow finding its place wherever the word Intel is mentioned.

to me it feels like reading posts in a TV screen thread "you guys should better buy Samsung curved TVs, they are the best! the fact is that earth is not flat, those flat earth believers are living in denial, i love Samsung curved OLED TVs, earth is not flat, flat earth believers are hurting"

wouldn't it be disturbing? when reading TV screen discussions and someone is constantly repeating the "truth" about earths shape seemingly to indicate that flat TV screens is somehow related to flat earth is definitely annoying.

To be more specific, your initial comments indicated you have not been reading and/or understanding the leak, you claimed "this is not touching Genoa (which is out) what is intel thinking?" than saying you you have not seen any leaks about GNR, than arguing "the best they came up with is a target" "intel is hurting" "this is a fact!" "its only a claim" "lets stick close to reality" --- while All of those comments would be appropriate as a rebuttal if Intel PR would claim that they are providing superior servers vs AMD servers, they are totally out of place in the conversation yesterday.

The leaked slide is a internal note, written in 2021 purely as a target, purely for internal discussions, and yet you seemingly indicate that this is something intel PR department 'came up with'

And if someone is assessing that GNR have a chance to compete with genoa according to those leaked targets from 2021, you first deny his assessment, than you seemingly indicate that the speculator missed his own written word "targeting", or that he is denying the fact that intel server business is hurting, or that he miss to understand the difference between claims and facts, all the while he said from the beginning this is a target, all the while no one here was arguing intel server business is in great shape, all the while intel did not came up with any claims here, all the while recommending to buy flat TV screens is not related to flat earth believers.

listen to a note from someone with good intention: the frequency of repeating the "intel hurts, Xeon sucks power, genoa is super, facts, biased" slogan is reaching the level of annoying, please dont assume that whoever is saying the slightest positive thing about intel is by default living in denial or is having intention and is getting paid from intel, thats not the case.

maybe my sense is wrong, i might have misunderstood your expressions,

 

[Markfw]

I'm sorry if that came across as insulting your intelligence, Discussing Genoa VS SPR, or analysis of benchmarks is not something that belongs for dumb folks, and i dont doubt your knowledge, hands on experience of tuning servers, or your understanding of energy consumption and performance analysis, etc.

However, "the reason i felt the need to post this" is because i felt:
1. you are not in sync with the conversation here.
2. you are way to much attached to the facts that "Intel sucks, intel sucks, genoa is super, others are biased towards intel, intel sucks, i am not biased, i am based on fact, i am not for example claiming that genoa is 5X better than SPR, intel sucks, i need facts!"

I do agree that Genoa is significantly ahead of SPR, and i agree that many people are biased, and i agree that intel servers are in bad shape now, yet i still feel disturbed when those sentiments are somehow finding its place wherever the word Intel is mentioned.

to me it feels like reading posts in a TV screen thread "you guys should better buy Samsung curved TVs, they are the best! the fact is that earth is not flat, those flat earth believers are living in denial, i love Samsung curved OLED TVs, earth is not flat, flat earth believers are hurting"

wouldn't it be disturbing? when reading TV screen discussions and someone is constantly repeating the "truth" about earths shape seemingly to indicate that flat TV screens is somehow related to flat earth is definitely annoying.

To be more specific, your initial comments indicated you have not been reading and/or understanding the leak, you claimed "this is not touching Genoa (which is out) what is intel thinking?" than saying you you have not seen any leaks about GNR, than arguing "the best they came up with is a target" "intel is hurting" "this is a fact!" "its only a claim" "lets stick close to reality" --- while All of those comments would be appropriate as a rebuttal if Intel PR would claim that they are providing superior servers vs AMD servers, they are totally out of place in the conversation yesterday.

The leaked slide is a internal note, written in 2021 purely as a target, purely for internal discussions, and yet you seemingly indicate that this is something intel PR department 'came up with'

And if someone is assessing that GNR have a chance to compete with genoa according to those leaked targets from 2021, you first deny his assessment, than you seemingly indicate that the speculator missed his own written word "targeting", or that he is denying the fact that intel server business is hurting, or that he miss to understand the difference between claims and facts, all the while he said from the beginning this is a target, all the while no one here was arguing intel server business is in great shape, all the while intel did not came up with any claims here, all the while recommending to buy flat TV screens is not related to flat earth believers.

listen to a note from someone with good intention: the frequency of repeating the "intel hurts, Xeon sucks power, genoa is super, facts, biased" slogan is reaching the level of annoying, please dont assume that whoever is saying the slightest positive thing about intel is by default living in denial or is having intention and is getting paid from intel, thats not the case.

maybe my sense is wrong, i might have misunderstood your expressions,

First, thanks for explaining. And for the rest here, I will answer this and move on.

I really hate Intel PR, like saying "AMD is in the rear view mirror, and we won't see them again" is just insulting to everyone, even those that still think Intel is doing well. Also, I have worked in a data center, one that has square MILES of servers, and power is a big deal, but many here seem to ignore or minimize that fact. And I really am getting sick of hearing about new Intel servers, year after year of products that should not even be sold. The 13900k is faster than one of the new Intel HEDT chips ? is that not insane ?

And maybe lastly.... I am not biased, I WANT Intel to come up with a good product, otherwise without competition, things will be worse, not better. Its just that everyone keeps trying to pump up the current server products, many of which fail to have independent benchmarks (like serverthehome and such), and then I keep hearing about future products that are going to be great. Well how many years has Intel been saying "good things are coming" ?? fool me once shame on me, fool me twice shame on you (Intel). THAT is what I am sick of hearing.

One last comment. I became a moderator circa 2006 right after Conroe came out, and I was a HUGE fan, and was overclocking them like no tomorrow. I was ELECTED by the users here, probably largely due to that. And I was an Intel supporter until 2017 When Ryzen came along. People have a short memory, but I really like to own the best, and I have swung back and forth like a see-saw for years.

 

[mikk]

imo meteor lake this fall for mobile because it's cancelled for desktop. raptor refresh this summer for desktop delivering more cache and whatever crap intel has devised, arrow lake release in q1 2024, lunar lake a mobile only platform in q3 or q4 2024, panther lake in q4 2024 or q1 2025.

it wouldn't be the first time intel released 2 major desktop generations in a 365 day period. to quote the general theme being said by many is intel is plowing through the generations in volume or not in volume to show shareholders they mean business. realistically the take rate for mtl will be high but not high for arrow lake since it'll be a first gen chiplet product from intel in its most modern sense. 12th gen was a new design approach and problematic whether people want to admit it or not. 13th gen does not have those same issues.

it doesn't help that windows 11 is junk, but both gens display normal behavior under windows 10 enviros even if they're not 100pc efficiently using their core context switching capabilities due to the scheduler.

MTL-S 6-16 seems to be cancelled, it's not clear what happens with the 6+8 tile which they need for mobile anyways. There are some rumors that MTL-S 6+8 and lower will be used for i3 and i5 SKUs whereas ARL-S gets the i7 and i9 spot with its 8+16 tile. ARL-S early 2024 in what process? 20A no chance and even TSMC 3nm looks slim at the moment for an early 2024 approach. They wouldn't even need Raptor refresh if ARL-S is coming early 2024. Most realistic target is more likely mid 2024. Panther Lake too early, it comes with a Xe3 GPU tile. This can't be ready till late 2025. Lunar Lake might come earlier than most expected, maybe before ARL-P. It's production ready in 2024 says Intel, 18A makes no sense unless Intel once again wants to delay a ready CPU because of waiting for 18A.

 

[eek2121]

Story time, because most of you all (I won't say ya'll or whatever despite being raised in a southeastern state) need a reality check. I was born into poverty. Back when Cannon Lake was introduced I was bankrupt. Oh and I almost died. Literally. The day after my bankruptcy proceeding I landed in the hospital in the ICU for unrelated causes. My family was called in to say goodbye. They were told I wasn't going to live. Family flew in from all across the US.

Today, I am in the top 10% of earners. I did not die and I am killing it every single year. I am also in the best physical shape I've been in since a teenager.

Never underestimate anyone. That includes any company as well. If past performance were indicative of the future, I should be long dead, buried, and my family, broke. Skepticism is good. Healthy. Allowing it to jade your views is not, especially when a company (Intel) still manages to be competitive with another (AMD) despite the latter company having access to superior technology.

Note that Apple was once very close to bankruptcy as well.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I myself have felt more revitalized and human after electrocuting myself a few times now over the years.

Good to know that you didn't have to visit a mental institution to get your fix of electric shock therapy

 

[A///]

Idk, but levels.fyi seems to think they indeed offer >120k.
https://www.levels.fyi/companies/intel/salaries

It's just that e.g. Apple and Nvidia offer more. Though I think AMD is pretty similar.

what is this? Is it like glassdoor? what's the process of verifying some of those eye watering claims?

 

[H433x0n]

imagine amd beating intel on their own node and do so for several gens. intel ceo then would be on suicide watch.

That's a fat chance considering Raphael compared to Raptor Cove performance per core metrics.

 

[DooKey]

When is Intel not gonna be shy about showing off its Intel 4 baby to the public? AMD will screw them anyway one way or the other (either power or performance or BOTH ) so they might as well leak some delicious benchmarks

True, Intel is dead. They have no chance and will be bankrupt soon.