Question Speculation: RDNA3 + CDNA2 Architectures Thread

[uzzi38]

Man I have been dying to make this one for a while now.

First rumours for RDNA3 are here so new thread time!

Just going to start off with this one for now: kopite7kimi on Twitter: "@VideoCardz Ah, I mean a simple mcm design with 10240 cores is not enough. Because the lift from RDNA2 to RDNA3 is much bigger than from RDNA1 to RDNA2. We should expect many big improvements in GFX11. 🤔" / Twitter

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

The leaked card card does not deserve the 7800xt name. It's a 7700xt at best.

Where the 6700xt was close to Nvidia last gen high end, the RTX 2080 ti, this rebranded 7700XT will barely match a 6800xt or RTX 3080.

This is a bad 7700XT and an awful 7800xt. It makes the RTX 4070, 25% improvement over it's predecessor look good.

So according to you N32 would be a bad 7700XT even though It would perform 40-50% better than 6700XT, but RTX 4070 with only 25% improvement over RTX 3070 is looking good in comparison.

RTX 4070 performs 24-25% better but costs 20% more than RTX 3070 at launch($599 vs $499). The advantages are higher perf, extra 4GB Vram and a bit lower TDP.

RX 7800XT(7700XT) should perform 40-50% better but could cost 15% more than RX 6700XT at launch($549 vs $499). The advantages are higher perf, extra 4GB Vram and better perf/$.

This could lose to the 6800XT at 4K scenarios, where the infinity cache gets saturated.

Remember the RDNA2's 6800xt came with 128mb of infinity cache vs this 7800xt's 64mb of cache.

N32 will have 12.5% higher BW and Infinity cache is also more capable.

 

[tajoh111]

So according to you N32 would be a bad 7700XT even though It would perform 40-50% better than 6700XT, but RTX 4070 with only 25% improvement over RTX 3070 is looking good in comparison.

RTX 4070 performs 24-25% better but costs 20% more than RTX 3070 at launch($599 vs $499). The advantages are higher perf, extra 4GB Vram and a bit lower TDP.

RX 7800XT(7700XT) should perform 40-50% better but could cost 15% more than RX 6700XT at launch($549 vs $499). The advantages are higher perf, extra 4GB Vram and better perf/$.


N32 will have 12.5% higher BW and Infinity cache is also more capable.

This card look if we go by it's specs performs 25-33% more than a 6700xt. Basically a 6800xt. That's improvement is similar to the RTX 4070 which is a meh card gen on gen. The problem is in the naming.

The problem lies that this card is being called a 7800xt and will bring about 0% performance improvement if compared to the 6800xt. That's what makes the RTX 4070 look good. Atleast the RTX 3070 to RTX 4070 somewhat resemble die sizes. This card is clearly a tier below in terms of manufacturing cost but is being brough up a tier.

Atleast the poorly named RTX 4060 which had a similar naming shift brings about 15-20% percent performance on average vs the 3060. This brings nothing vs the 6800xt.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Atleast the poorly named RTX 4060 which had a similar naming shift brings about 15-20% percent performance on average vs the 3060. This brings nothing vs the 6800xt.

Quoted for the lulz it provided me. I wasn't expecting anyone to spin this into an attempt to try and rehab the abject failure that is the 4060. But here we are.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

This card look if we go by it's specs performs 25-33% more than a 6700xt. Basically a 6800xt. That's improvement is similar to the RTX 4070 which is a meh card gen on gen. The problem is in the naming.

The problem lies that this card is being called a 7800xt and will bring about 0% performance improvement if compared to the 6800xt. That's what makes the RTX 4070 look good. Atleast the RTX 3070 to RTX 4070 somewhat resemble die sizes. This card is clearly a tier below in terms of manufacturing cost but is being brough up a tier.

Atleast the poorly named RTX 4060 which had a similar naming shift brings about 15-20% percent performance on average vs the 3060. This brings nothing vs the 6800xt.

Where is any logic in this?
This card could cost the same $549 in both cases, but because of the name It would be:
1.) N32 called as RX 7800XT would be a failure because you would compare It to RX 6800XT.
2.) N32 called as RX 7700XT would be a pretty decent card because you would compare It to RX 6700XT.

RXT 4070 is faster than RTX 3070, but It has almost zero improvement in per/$.
7800XT has zero improvement in performance, but It has better perf/$ than RX 6800XT.
So what's so great about RTX 4070?

Bringing up RTX 4060 is ridiculous. It has 15-20% higher performance, but It also cost 20% more and you loose 4GB Vram.

@Heartbreaker If you think $549 is too much then just wait a few months. It will most likely go down.

edit: I am blind. It was RTX 4060 and not 4060Ti. My mistake.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Where is any logic in this?
This card could cost the same $549 in both cases, but because of the name It would be:
1.) N32 called as RX 7800XT would be a failure because you would compare It to RX 6800XT.
2.) N32 called as RX 7700XT would be a pretty decent card because you would compare It to RX 6700XT.

RXT 4070 is faster than RTX 3070, but It has almost zero improvement in per/$.
7800XT has zero improvement in performance, but It has better perf/$ than RX 6800XT.
So what's so great about RTX 4070?

Bringing up RTX 4060 is ridiculous. It has 15-20% higher performance, but It also cost 20% more and you loose 4GB Vram. And this should be better because It performs better?

If you think $549 is too much then just wait a few months. It will certainly go down.

I don't really care what they call it. At $500 60 CU/16GB N32 seems pretty good. At $550 it's a total meh... Since this is AMD in 2023, I expect meh pricing or worse.

 

[Heartbreaker]

@Heartbreaker If you think $549 is too much then just wait a few months. It will most likely go down.

Probably.

Why launch it at a price that will lead to good reviews, when you can launch to lackluster reviews, and then have both lower buzz/sales, and still end up selling for lower margins soon after. Win-Win.

 

[insertcarehere]

Where is any logic in this?
This card could cost the same $549 in both cases, but because of the name It would be:
1.) N32 called as RX 7800XT would be a failure because you would compare It to RX 6800XT.
2.) N32 called as RX 7700XT would be a pretty decent card because you would compare It to RX 6700XT.

RXT 4070 is faster than RTX 3070, but It has almost zero improvement in per/$.
7800XT has zero improvement in performance, but It has better perf/$ than RX 6800XT.
So what's so great about RTX 4070?

Bringing up RTX 4060 is ridiculous. It has 15-20% higher performance, but It also cost 20% more and you loose 4GB Vram.

@Heartbreaker If you think $549 is too much then just wait a few months. It will most likely go down.

How is a 7800XT that launches at c.$550 going to have better perf/$ than a 6800XT at less than $550 with similar performance?

And if you are using launch pricing to compare, then be consistent with it, RTX 3060 was a $329 card at launch and the RTX 4060 launched at cheaper pricing..

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

How is a 7800XT that launches at c.$550 going to have better perf/$ than a 6800XT at less than $550 with similar performance?

And if you are using launch pricing to compare, then be consistent with it, RTX 3060 was a $329 card at launch and the RTX 4060 launched at cheaper pricing..

I am always comparing MRSP.

1.) RX 6800 XT's launch pricing was $649. Yes, now you can buy them a lot cheaper, but It's to sell old stock of the previous generation. I would rather choose the newest generation than the old one unless the price disparity is big, and I expect some performance gains from dual-issue in the long run.

2.) I was actually comparing RTX 4060Ti vs RTX 3060, so It was $399 vs $329. After reading your post, I noticed my mistake and fixed it, 12hours in work + 1.75h on road has Its consequences. Yes, RTX 4060 is a good card compared to the rest.

edit:
Maybe RX 7900GE could be an interesting option for $649. It has almost the same specs as 7900XT and only the memory subsystem was cutdown.
It should have a pretty high OC potential thanks to low clocks. If It's not artificially blocked and BW won't be a bottleneck, then It could be worth more than 7900XT or 7800XT.

 

[AtenRa]

7800XT 16GB vs RTX 4060Ti 16GB
7700XT (12GB ??) vs RTX 4060Ti 8GB

Just waiting to see when they will release the 7900 (GRE) in US/Europe.

 

[PJVol]

I was expecting an improvement over the 6800XT. I don't think that's too much to ask.

You've got an improvement - 7800 7900XT ot GRE. As for the price, that's the reality of todays market, there was a time the top end gpus were $500. If XT drops close to $700 by Christmas - here you go.

Where is any logic in this?
This card could cost the same $549 in both cases, but because of the name It would be:
1.) N32 called as RX 7800XT would be a failure because you would compare It to RX 6800XT.
2.) N32 called as RX 7700XT would be a pretty decent card because you would compare It to RX 6700XT.

But some people believe naming doesn't matter )

I personally think n32 60CU whatever they call it will be a decent card for $500 or even $529 for those looking for upgrade from 2-3 gen old hardware, on par with 4070
It's just as an enthusiast I'm not interested in any RDNA3 product at all because of their decision to restrict the power/performance control via SPPT that allows to get a good extra from RDNA2 GPUs, for example ~6950XT level for my 6800XT very slight overclocked.

 

[Heartbreaker]

I am always comparing MRSP.

1.) RX 6800 XT's launch pricing was $649. Yes, now you can buy them a lot cheaper, but It's to sell old stock of the previous generation. I would rather choose the newest generation than the old one unless the price disparity is big, and I expect some performance gains from dual-issue in the long run.

While it's valid to make that MSRP to MSRP comparison in the theoretical abstract to show some progress in perf/$ on an MSRP basis, back in practical reality land, the 6800 XT has consistently been available for months for under $550, and likely most of the people who were interested in an AMD card of this price and performance level have bought in.

A new $550 7800XT that performs the same is unlikely to generate any excitement at all. Hence my early "meh". It's also relatively closer to the RTX 4070 pricing, that the 6800 Xt has already been failing to make much headway against.

As I type this I'm imagining Steve at HWUB pointing this out while giving another "What is AMD thinking?" review...

$500 would at least be better than what 6800 XT has been selling for on average, and is a bigger gap to the 4070, so some practical gains.

 

[Mopetar]

Might be a similar situation as with N33 where there's no XT designation at the top end. I don't know if that ultimately changes the pricing, but it does seem as though AMD won't try blowing smoke with the naming.

 

[Tuna-Fish]

With the long delay some people were hoping they might fix it a bit to get higher clocks. But it is still a puzzle why they waited this long,

It was reported long ago that they had lots of unsold N21 and N22 inventory. They sold it out first.

 

[Frenetic Pony]

Alright so going off the GRE = 4070

This is slightly disappointing, but if the clock speeds were to change a bit it'd be the same performance as a 4070. Game clock of 2.5ghz, same as 7900 XTX, would mean around a 33% higher clockspeed than GRE, which is what it would need to match GRE's performance on average.

The clockspeeds could be due to AMD cheaping out and trying to get as many dies as possible to hit the top bin by severely limiting clockspeeds, instead of doing the usual thing and having two bins, one with 60CU/High clocks one with say, 54CU/low clocks.

Could mean this card is an overclockers dream, or more likely we'll see overclocked higher $$$ versions. We know RDNA3 can happily hit 2.8ghz plus from the mobile version, which here would put it 15%+ over a 4070.

So, $600 "18gbps" ram OC'ed to 20gbps and 2.9ghz clockspeed version incoming? Or is GDDR speed limited by contract? If it is it would be smart for AMD to change it up for this die. I imagine they'd be doing this because the "low-ish" bin of GPUs doesn't have nearly the same profit margin as the full bin, and they're tired of taking it in the wallet like that.

 

[Ajay]

From another thread:

RDNA3 perform well in tests but badly according to the usual urban legends rehashed ad nauseam, what they lack is cards that cover the mid range segments, at this point they only have the 7900XT/XTX at the upper range and the 7600 at the bottom, money is made between thoses two segment for a big part.

Grafikkarten-Rangliste 2024: GPUs im Vergleich

Welche Grafikkarte kaufen? Für den April gibt es Empfehlungen mit Nvidia GeForce RTX 4000, AMD Radeon RX 7000 und Intel Arc.

www.computerbase.de

So what did badly panout according to these numbers..?

The performance isn't bad in and of itself. I had an RX 7900 XT for a couple weeks and the performance was great (stuttering issue related to my setup, p*ssed me off, so I returned to NV). The problem was that AMD was aiming for a 50% increase in perf/watt by their own slides. Some of the hype was that it was going to do even better than this. N31 didn't pan out that way at all. AMD would have dusted Nvidia quite nicely. As it is, the plentiful available supply of reduced price 6950 XTs really retarded sales of the 7000 series.

Kinda wish I had picked up a 6950 XT on sale instead of the 7900 XT - performance is very good. Better than the vanilla 4070, $200 less than my card and has an extra 4GB of RAM (and wouldn't have had the stuttering problem). Anyway, lots of gamers will shell out for a 4070/TI rather than the faster 7900XT - and the 4080 rather than 7900 XTX with similar performance. AMD has to do better than NV right now to win $$s from them. It's just the way it is.

 

[Abwx]

From another thread:



The performance isn't bad in and of itself. I had an RX 7900 XT for a couple weeks and the performance was great (stuttering issue related to my setup, p*ssed me off, so I returned to NV). The problem was that AMD was aiming for a 50% increase in perf/watt by their own slides. Some of the hype was that it was going to do even better than this. N31 didn't pan out that way at all. AMD would have dusted Nvidia quite nicely. As it is, the plentiful available supply of reduced price 6950 XTs really retarded sales of the 7000 series.

Kinda wish I had picked up a 6950 XT on sale instead of the 7900 XT - performance is very good. Better than the vanilla 4070, $200 less than my card and has an extra 4GB of RAM (and wouldn't have had the stuttering problem). Anyway, lots of gamers will shell out for a 4070/TI rather than the faster 7900XT - and the 4080 rather than 7900 XTX with similar performance. AMD has to do better than NV right now to win $$s from them. It's just the way it is.

Previous gen with RDNA2 had a perf/watt advantage against the competition, but so far this didnt change the marketshares, so at the end there s something else at work since what is reproached to AMD on an instance is not to Nvidia when they are in a comparable situation.

Thing is that Nvidia did build a strong brand not only with perfs when they are ahead but also due to a sizable part of their users that never switch brand and are acting as some non paid marketers and viral marketers, while AMD users never adopt such a baseless behaviour.

At the end of the day this works very well in some parts of the world, not everywhere fortunately, in countries like Germany people rely on numbers and not on hearsay, and this show in the sales where AMD seems to have a bigger volume marketshare than Nvidia there, albeit still being below in revenue marketshare.

As for price/perfs dunno what AMD can do, they can have better perfs and lower prices in a given segment but this apparently cant compensate for the everyday FUD spread in the world wide internet, as said Mark Twain it s much more difficult to convince someone that he has been fooled than to fool him in the first place, and so it goes here, once you managed to drag someone in the FUD you ll hardly get it out because that become something psychological.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1688641043284078592

 

[Ajay]

Previous gen with RDNA2 had a perf/watt advantage against the competition, but so far this didnt change the marketshares, so at the end there s something else at work since what is reproached to AMD on an instance is not to Nvidia when they are in a comparable situation.

Thing is that Nvidia did build a strong brand not only with perfs when they are ahead but also due to a sizable part of their users that never switch brand and are acting as some non paid marketers and viral marketers, while AMD users never adopt such a baseless behaviour.

At the end of the day this works very well in some parts of the world, not everywhere fortunately, in countries like Germany people rely on numbers and not on hearsay, and this show in the sales where AMD seems to have a bigger volume marketshare than Nvidia there, albeit still being below in revenue marketshare.

As for price/perfs dunno what AMD can do, they can have better perfs and lower prices in a given segment but this apparently cant compensate for the everyday FUD spread in the world wide internet, as said Mark Twain it s much more difficult to convince someone that he has been fooled than to fool him in the first place, and so it goes here, once you managed to drag someone in the FUD you ll hardly get it out because that become something psychological.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1688641043284078592

AMD, as per the chart, has done much better in Germany than in the US in general. My understand is that the AMD brand has always been stronger in Europe than the US. But, the bottom line is that they only way to beat a competitor is to do better than them - in every category. Better products, better service, better marketing, better community relations and, in particular here, better interaction with developers. Remember NVidia's THIMTBP: https://www.nvidia.com/content/gift_guide/twimtbp.html? That was a combined marketing program and developer program where Nvidia would send some of their engineers over to be embedded in a game company. The company would get some free help with game optimization and be able to put that badge on their game. It was really successful.

The problem of brand loyalty is difficult. Neither my wife nor I have bought anything other than a Honda or Toyota for the past 30+ years based on reliability and low maintenance costs. If we do buy from another brand in the next few years, it'll be because neither Honda nor Toyota have a compelling BEV choice. If it weren't for that, no other manufacturer would have a chance of getting our money.

So there are people like me, who had many different brands of cards in the late 90's to very early aughts. My last ATi card, some 20+ years ago, gave me 6 months of driver problems - artifacts, blue screens and whatnot. After six months I threw that card in the trash and bought from Nvidia. In the trash! I wouldn't even sell it to someone else because I didn't want anyone else to suffer that experience. The only NV card I've bought since, that I didn't like, was the 'dust buster' cards - I almost switched, but found a buyer who didn't care about the noise and waited till the next gen came out.

That how it works with many Americans - don't know why we are that way. I only buy Denon receivers, Sony TVs and Dell monitors. Until a recent change in their line up, I only bought Eddie Bauer jeans. I might switch brands on any of these, but I don't have a reason to at the moment - they've all been long lasting and reliable (and I've had no dead pixels!).

So AMD is stuck building a better mousetrap - and selling the hell out of it for years in the US before they will have a chance to really disrupt the market. If what is rumored to have happened with their RDNA4 lineup is true - then AMD graphics will be getting another kick to the balls, which is really too bad.

 

[igor_kavinski]

AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT Re-Review

Let's pretend for a minute it's 2022 again, and the Radeon RX 7900 XT is just getting released. But in this scenario, the GPU is introduced with...

www.techspot.com

These two games got the highest gains@1080p from the new drivers, seemingly from CPU optimization of the drivers. They must have been in a real rush to publish this article. Couldn't wait a few hours more to slip in some RT benchmarks.

 

[insertcarehere]

AMD, as per the chart, has done much better in Germany than in the US in general. My understand is that the AMD brand has always been stronger in Europe than the US. But, the bottom line is that they only way to beat a competitor is to do better than them - in every category. Better products, better service, better marketing, better community relations and, in particular here, better interaction with developers. Remember NVidia's THIMTBP: https://www.nvidia.com/content/gift_guide/twimtbp.html? That was a combined marketing program and developer program where Nvidia would send some of their engineers over to be embedded in a game company. The company would get some free help with game optimization and be able to put that badge on their game. It was really successful.

The problem of brand loyalty is difficult. Neither my wife nor I have bought anything other than a Honda or Toyota for the past 30+ years based on reliability and low maintenance costs. If we do buy from another brand in the next few years, it'll be because neither Honda nor Toyota have a compelling BEV choice. If it weren't for that, no other manufacturer would have a chance of getting our money.

So there are people like me, who had many different brands of cards in the late 90's to very early aughts. My last ATi card, some 20+ years ago, gave me 6 months of driver problems - artifacts, blue screens and whatnot. After six months I threw that card in the trash and bought from Nvidia. In the trash! I wouldn't even sell it to someone else because I didn't want anyone else to suffer that experience. The only NV card I've bought since, that I didn't like, was the 'dust buster' cards - I almost switched, but found a buyer who didn't care about the noise and waited till the next gen came out.

That how it works with many Americans - don't know why we are that way. I only buy Denon receivers, Sony TVs and Dell monitors. Until a recent change in their line up, I only bought Eddie Bauer jeans. I might switch brands on any of these, but I don't have a reason to at the moment - they've all been long lasting and reliable (and I've had no dead pixels!).

So AMD is stuck building a better mousetrap - and selling the hell out of it for years in the US before they will have a chance to really disrupt the market. If what is rumored to have happened with their RDNA4 lineup is true - then AMD graphics will be getting another kick to the balls, which is really too bad.

To say that AMD is blameless in this would be untrue, when they have had a track record of saying statements that blew up in their faces.

Case in point, AMD themselves recommends a 800-850w PSU for 7900XTX (their website states it now) and were explicitly marketing that users can get away with not upgrading their PSUs for this GPU given the 8-pin connectors, (as opposed to the 4090 with 12vphr).

...Now it turns out that many of the users in China who bought 850w PSUs and 7900 XTXs as per AMD's recommendations unpleasantly found out that the 7900XTX's transients trigger OPP on those very same 850W PSUs, basically 850w models from a wide variety of brands that weren't ATX 3.0 could trigger OPP during stress testing and games (hence the extensive testing below):

Somebody therefore put an Oscilloscope on a (non-ref, no reference boards are sold in China) 7900 XTX here and found that transients peak at 84A on a 12V rail, more than enough to take down a non-ATX 3.0 850W PSU.

It's not hard to see why this would leave a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths..

 

[igor_kavinski]

Case in point, AMD themselves recommends a 800-850w PSU for 7900XTX (their website states it now) and were explicitly marketing that users can get away with not upgrading their PSUs for this GPU given the 8-pin connectors, (as opposed to the 4090 with 12vphr).

Advanced Marketing Disaster. Sigh.

 

[PJVol]

peak at 84V

Not gonna correct?

 

[SolidQ]

AMD reveals Radeon RX 7900 XTX and Ryzen 7 7800X3D Starfield Limited edition - VideoCardz.com

AMD Radeon RX 7900 XTX Starfield Special Edition During QuakeCon 2023, AMD and Bethesda have joined forces to introduce a special edition of the Radeon RX 7900 XTX graphics card. AMD holds an exclusive partnership for the upcoming space RPG, Starfield’s launch. The company has already declared...

videocardz.com

 

[GodisanAtheist]

AMD reveals Radeon RX 7900 XTX and Ryzen 7 7800X3D Starfield Limited edition - VideoCardz.com

AMD Radeon RX 7900 XTX Starfield Special Edition During QuakeCon 2023, AMD and Bethesda have joined forces to introduce a special edition of the Radeon RX 7900 XTX graphics card. AMD holds an exclusive partnership for the upcoming space RPG, Starfield’s launch. The company has already declared...

videocardz.com

The 7900XTX is admittedly pretty cool looking if you're into the white/NASA punk style build.

The CPU is kinda dumb, should have tossed in a custom Wraith Stealth Prism Cooler with the same color scheme or something.

Looks like these items aren't purchasable though, purely a collector's/scalper's item giveaway at QuakeCon based on my reading.

 

[igor_kavinski]

AMD reveals Radeon RX 7900 XTX and Ryzen 7 7800X3D Starfield Limited edition - VideoCardz.com

AMD Radeon RX 7900 XTX Starfield Special Edition During QuakeCon 2023, AMD and Bethesda have joined forces to introduce a special edition of the Radeon RX 7900 XTX graphics card. AMD holds an exclusive partnership for the upcoming space RPG, Starfield’s launch. The company has already declared...

videocardz.com

Damn. These will fetch thousands on eBay!

 

[gdansk]

AMD reveals Radeon RX 7900 XTX and Ryzen 7 7800X3D Starfield Limited edition - VideoCardz.com

AMD Radeon RX 7900 XTX Starfield Special Edition During QuakeCon 2023, AMD and Bethesda have joined forces to introduce a special edition of the Radeon RX 7900 XTX graphics card. AMD holds an exclusive partnership for the upcoming space RPG, Starfield’s launch. The company has already declared...

videocardz.com

I like the look of it. Much better than the Halo Infinite collab in the past.

And a good giveaway from AMD as even if you don't need a 7900 XTX it'll probably fetch over MSRP if resold.