Discussion Speculation: Zen 4 (EPYC 4 "Genoa", Ryzen 7000, etc.)

[Vattila]

Except for the details about the improvements in the microarchitecture, we now know pretty well what to expect with Zen 3.

The leaked presentation by AMD Senior Manager Martin Hilgeman shows that EPYC 3 "Milan" will, as promised and expected, reuse the current platform (SP3), and the system architecture and packaging looks to be the same, with the same 9-die chiplet design and the same maximum core and thread-count (no SMT-4, contrary to rumour). The biggest change revealed so far is the enlargement of the compute complex from 4 cores to 8 cores, all sharing a larger L3 cache ("32+ MB", likely to double to 64 MB, I think).

Hilgeman's slides did also show that EPYC 4 "Genoa" is in the definition phase (or was at the time of the presentation in September, at least), and will come with a new platform (SP5), with new memory support (likely DDR5).

What else do you think we will see with Zen 4? PCI-Express 5 support? Increased core-count? 4-way SMT? New packaging (interposer, 2.5D, 3D)? Integrated memory on package (HBM)?

Vote in the poll and share your thoughts!

 

[Ranulf]

Tomorrow is presentation? At what time in europe?

7pm EST Monday 29th.

1am Euro/Paris time, Tues 30th.

 

[exquisitechar]

Bruh, 8 Alder Lake P cores alone pull more power than all 16 Zen3 cores/5950X PPT + 88W ("230W PPT"). And I think we can expect Raptor Lake P cores to be even thirstier.

We also don't really know that much about how well AMD's custom TSMC N5 node scales with more power. It is a new node and it is likey tuned to hell for high performance.

Only one of the chipmakers is pushing their SKUs silicon hard, has been for half a decade now, and it ain't AMD.

Don't get me wrong. I have almost no doubt that the 7950X will be more efficient at stock (assuming at stock it will be 230W vs ~250W), but it won't be by the ridiculous margin that a lot of people are imagining.

 

[Kedas]

15% was in games for V-cache equivalent as an entire generation.
The new generation is here now (tomorrow)
So what do you think for games Zen4 compared to Zen3?

I think 20%-25% average, so a little faster over Zen3 V-cache
(about a half year from now we will also have zen4 V-cache but that's for later)

 

[Markfw]

Don't get me wrong. I have almost no doubt that the 7950X will be more efficient at stock (assuming at stock it will be 230W vs ~250W), but it won't be by the ridiculous margin that a lot of people are imagining.

I don't know why many of you keep using 230 for a 7950x. Thats the SOCKET power. 170 is supposed to be the rating for the 7950x. You think they would make a chip use the max socket power in the first generation to use that socket ?

 

[Karnak]

170W is supposed to be the TDP rating. Thanks to the gigabyte leak we know that 170W is a TDP figure like 105W or 65W and not the actual PPT one.

 

[Abwx]

170W is supposed to be the TDP rating. Thanks to the gigabyte leak we know that 170W is a TDP figure like 105W or 65W and not the actual PPT one.

The leak with 230W PPT was about the AM5 plateform, so far there s no leak about a supposed 230W PPT CPU.

 

[Schmide]

7pm EST Monday 29th.

1am Euro/Paris time, Tues 30th.

Although early in the morning, they are literally competing with a moon launch.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I wish the event was tonight. More than 24 hours wait. ARRGGHHH!

 

[Timmah!]

7pm EST Monday 29th.

1am Euro/Paris time, Tues 30th.

Thus as usual, completely disregarding Europe. Could have been 4PM or even 5PM and still before midnight, but no.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Thus as usual, completely disregarding Europe. Could have been 4PM or even 5PM and still before midnight, but no.

On the bright side, there might be a few tasty reviews waiting for you to gobble down on in the morning

 

[FangBLade]

Thus as usual, completely disregarding Europe. Could have been 4PM or even 5PM and still before midnight, but no.

call your boss and tell him you're sick .

 

[Timmah!]

I don't know why many of you keep using 230 for a 7950x. Thats the SOCKET power. 170 is supposed to be the rating for the 7950x. You think they would make a chip use the max socket power in the first generation to use that socket ?

To be fair yes, why not. Its not like they are going to add another higher tiered CPU on top of it in the near future. That will probably happen when they add more cores, which will probably reguire 3nm node or whatever is the next one, that will draw once again less power to allow said higher core count.

That said, i hope not. 170W CPU already scoring 35k+ with power reserve to clock/score higher would be indeed better.

 

[Timmah!]

call your boss and tell him you're sick .

i am self-employed

 

[Abwx]

5950x does 184.4 CB R23 pts/Watt, 7950X will do a little better than 230.5 pts/Watt at a considered power, that s what >25% better perf/watt mean.

 

[FangBLade]

i am self-employed

 

[Thunder 57]

Thus as usual, completely disregarding Europe. Could have been 4PM or even 5PM and still before midnight, but no.

Then you'd have people on the west coast bitching. There is no perfect answer. It's not like 1am is all that bad. I'd stay up for it.

 

[reb0rn]

You can expect 7950x in real benches to use up to 230w and ~300w when limits are unlocked, will intel use more i bet it might but margins will not be more than ~5-10% or so

 

[Thibsie]

You can expect 7950x in real benches to use up to 230w and ~300w when limits are unlocked, will intel use more i bet it might but margins will not be more than ~5-10% or so

Dream on.

 

[Kaluan]

Don't get me wrong. I have almost no doubt that the 7950X will be more efficient at stock (assuming at stock it will be 230W vs ~250W), but it won't be by the ridiculous margin that a lot of people are imagining.

Ohhh got it. Same here I guess, I think 7950X will beat everything 'mainstream x86' in efficiency, save for 5950X itself.

I wish the event was tonight. More than 24 hours wait. ARRGGHHH!

Same here, been having a rough week and this would defo help cheer me up a bit haha, been trying to build a new system for ages, AM5 and RDNA3 are the main missing pieces.

Unless the pricing is horrible, then I'll just get angry and say to myself "welp, that's it, I'm really done with PC DIY this time" lol

 

[reb0rn]

Dream on.

Why, the TDP of raptor and zen4 is almost identical, why would you not expect similar power use for top models?
How you think they managed to push 5.5Ghz with multicore load where 5950x for me drop frequency way under 4Ghz with ~140w use, sure they must match intel speed and will push power use to the brink same as intel

You here dram a lies and fud a lot, ask yourself why non leak show power use for zen4

 

[FangBLade]

Then you'd have people on the west coast bitching. There is no perfect answer. It's not like 1am is all that bad. I'd stay up for it.

1AM is perfect time, I like silence, when everyone is sleeping, when there is no traffic.

 

[maddogmcgee]

Thus as usual, completely disregarding Europe. Could have been 4PM or even 5PM and still before midnight, but no.

You think that's bad. Down here in Australia I am going to be waiting 6 months for AMD's fall/autumn announcement.

 

[FangBLade]

Why, the TDP of raptor and zen4 is almost identical, why would you not expect similar power use for top models?
How you think they managed to push 5.5Ghz with multicore load where 5950x for me drop frequency way under 4Ghz with ~140w use, sure they must match intel speed and will push power use to the brink same as intel

You here dram a lies and fud a lot, ask yourself why non leak show power use for zen4

For someone who is new in this topic, you are very offensive, can i suggest you to calm down a little bit? Life is much more than PC hardware, try it.

 

[Kaluan]

ask yourself why non leak show power use for zen4

...???
There's barely any leaks for Zen4, full stop. You think there's isn't one about power usage for (mostly) Engineering Sample leaks... because it's some sort of conspiracy by AMD to cover up their bad efficiency (when it's pretty much a fact that Intel will be way worse) or what? Not even sure what you're implying.

 

[Abwx]

You here dram a lies and fud a lot, ask yourself why non leak show power use for zen4

We have better than leaks, we have the perfs and perf/Watt in respect of a 5950X stated by AMD themselves, either you understand technical datas and their meaning or you ll keep posting non sense...

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