The anti-DRM thread

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BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
2,977
126
DDoS attack causes paying Diablo 4 customers to lose access to the game they paid for for up to 12 hours:


This is what happens when games are a "service". No such problems with classic Blizzard games because they don't touch Battlenet.
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,673
10,933
136
DDoS attack causes paying Diablo 4 customers to lose access to the game they paid for for up to 12 hours:


This is what happens when games are a "service". No such problems with classic Blizzard games because they don't touch Battlenet.

Which "classic" Blizzard games are we talking about here? The entire Diablo franchise since Diablo 2 has had a battle.net element associated with it. Diablo was ruined constantly by cheaters, and Diablo 2 went a long way to stopping the most obvious character editor cheats if you chose to play on one of their online realms. The downside being that if the realm was down then you couldn't play that character, and that if you chose to play offline then you were siloed off in your own little world where you would never encounter anyone else except maybe friends on your local LAN (or you could use a service like Kali lol).

Yeah it's nice to have offline mode until you realize that all your offline progress can't be mirrored online where your friends or your clan play.

People act like Diablo was so much better for its offline play, since you could pop online with any character you wanted, but the consequence was that you had to deal with other people doing the same thing (with cheated characters), plus the awful townkill hacks and invulnerable players etc.
 

Hail The Brain Slug

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2005
3,177
1,529
136
Which "classic" Blizzard games are we talking about here? The entire Diablo franchise since Diablo 2 has had a battle.net element associated with it. Diablo was ruined constantly by cheaters, and Diablo 2 went a long way to stopping the most obvious character editor cheats if you chose to play on one of their online realms. The downside being that if the realm was down then you couldn't play that character, and that if you chose to play offline then you were siloed off in your own little world where you would never encounter anyone else except maybe friends on your local LAN (or you could use a service like Kali lol).

Yeah it's nice to have offline mode until you realize that all your offline progress can't be mirrored online where your friends or your clan play.

People act like Diablo was so much better for its offline play, since you could pop online with any character you wanted, but the consequence was that you had to deal with other people doing the same thing (with cheated characters), plus the awful townkill hacks and invulnerable players etc.
You can't reasonably expect all of those issues to be 100% solved without issue.

With Diablo 2 Blizzard offered two Battle.net options: Closed and Open Battle.net.

Closed Battle.net was online 100% of the time, characters stored on server, can only be played on games running on battle.net. This was the most secure from hacking and bugs, but like all online systems was not invulnerable.

Open Battle.net, where you can run local file singleplayer characters, play singleplayer, LAN, or login to Battle.net and create open Battle.net games and play with other characters.

----------

On open Battle.net, by design, you can't control what people's character files contain because they're simply locally saved on their computers and vulnerable to file editors.

I'm not really sure what kind of solution you have in mind that allows fully safe, unmodifiable character files but also allows offline and online play without any of these vulnerabilities?

----------

On another hand, if you agree that online stored characters are the most secure way to play without hacking, cheating, and modification, what are you really complaining about with regards to server outages or maintenance? It's a fact of life that is very difficult to work around.

----------

Pretty sure the legitimate complaint with Diablo 3 (and now 4) is you are not allowed to play offline at all in any capacity. if I don't want to play online with other players, I have no choice. If I have no internet connection, I cannot play.

I feel like you're conflating the reasons for offline available characters vs. online only characters, with forced online only play.
 
Last edited:
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,673
10,933
136
I'm not really sure what kind of solution you have in mind that allows fully safe, unmodifiable character files but also allows offline and online play without any of these vulnerabilities?
I never said there was one. It's just that it's unreasonable to excoriate Blizzard for having online-only play for a Diablo game when the alternative is so potentially awful ("open" battle.net was a mess).
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
2,977
126
Which "classic" Blizzard games are we talking about here?
All of them.

The entire Diablo franchise since Diablo 2 has had a battle.net element associated with it.
We already went over this a few pages back when you failed to produce a single example of a pre-steam game requiring mandatory auto patching for offline single player.

Again, I've never had a Battlenet account or ever logged onto it, yet all classic Blizzard games were playable offline or LAN. Hell, I remember playing Starcraft with a cross-over ethernet cable with a buddy without even a proper LAN, much less an internet connection.

To this day you can download Diablo 2 directly from Blizzard's website, enter your CD key, and never touch Battlenet or the internet.

Diablo was ruined constantly by cheaters, and Diablo 2 went a long way to stopping the most obvious character editor cheats if you chose to play on one of their online realms. The downside being that if the realm was down then you couldn't play that character, and that if you chose to play offline then you were siloed off in your own little world where you would never encounter anyone else except maybe friends on your local LAN (or you could use a service like Kali lol).

Yeah it's nice to have offline mode until you realize that all your offline progress can't be mirrored online where your friends or your clan play.

People act like Diablo was so much better for its offline play, since you could pop online with any character you wanted, but the consequence was that you had to deal with other people doing the same thing (with cheated characters), plus the awful townkill hacks and invulnerable players etc.
Completely irrelevant to offline single player and LAN.

Completely irrelevant to paying PC customers losing access to single player for 12 hours, while console Diablo 3 players had no such problem.
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,673
10,933
136
We already went over this a few pages back when you failed to produce a single example of a pre-steam game requiring mandatory auto patching for offline single player.
[/QUOTE]

Your idea of failure is warped.

Again, I've never had a Battlenet account or ever logged onto it, yet all classic Blizzard games were playable offline or LAN.

Yeah we already covered that. It's a mixed bag. Offline play is great and all until you want to play with your friends who live a few states over and can't come by for a LAN party. I remember what Diablo online was like, and it was pretty bad once the cheaters took over the game.

Anyway, it was a DDoS attack that shut down Blizzard's authentication servers. All their battle.net titles were generally unavailable.
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
2,977
126
Your idea of failure is warped.
Again, list them. You've still failed to list any offline single player game that required mandatory auto-patching prior to Steam.

List all these games that "make me wrong".

List them.

Yeah we already covered that.
The only thing we "covered" is you failing to list a single game. Not even one.

It's a mixed bag. Offline play is great and all until you want to play with your friends who live a few states over and can't come by for a LAN party. I remember what Diablo online was like, and it was pretty bad once the cheaters took over the game.

Anyway, it was a DDoS attack that shut down Blizzard's authentication servers. All their battle.net titles were generally unavailable.
A wall of irrevelant rambling with nothing to do with offline single player, which "games as a service" actively prevent.
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
2,977
126

That's right, the same corporation that requires an online account logon to print and also uses DRM to block third party cartridges, also disables faxing and scanning if the ink runs low.

This corporation describes itself as "eco-friendly", LOL. HP cares deeply about carbon emissions and climate change, yo!
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
2,977
126
Rockstar selling cracked versions of their games.


Unity engine will now add telemetry DRM to track game installs to charge developers more fees. Retroactively applies to previously released games as well.

People accepted the "games as a service" model, now they're reaping the consequences, which includes the developers themselves in this case. You own nothing and you continue to pay for the privilege of owning nothing, and having no rights.

 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,673
10,933
136
Unity already bundles trackers into games made with Unity development tools, and it's unclear to what extent (if any) developers are allowed to disable those trackers for the sake of their customers. I've had to block a few Unity titles that ask for permission to bypass the Windows Defender firewall (not sure if that blocks all of their phone home activity; probably not, but it helps to refuse access to the application anyway).

It's going to be really bad for devs that have already used Unity. For future projects, devs need to seek alternatives.
 

H T C

Senior member
Nov 7, 2018
561
401
136
Stupid question: is this whole Unity thing and their "per install tax" even legal in European Union?

If not, i'd like to see Unity go ahead with their plans AND THEN get sued "out of existence": that would teach Unity's competitors (and whatever other companies thinking about something similar) what NOT TO ATTEMPT later ...

And while the European Union is @ it, take steps to prevent whatever telemetry Unity uses to check how many installs the game has had, AND BLOCK ANY COMPANY (game company or no) from using them.
 
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DeathReborn

Platinum Member
Oct 11, 2005
2,747
743
136
Stupid question: is this whole Unity thing and their "per install tax" even legal in European Union?

If not, i'd like to see Unity go ahead with their plans AND THEN get sued "out of existence": that would teach Unity's competitors (and whatever other companies thinking about something similar) what NOT TO ATTEMPT later ...

And while the European Union is @ it, take steps to prevent whatever telemetry Unity uses to check how many installs the game has had, AND BLOCK ANY COMPANY (game company or no) from using them.
They say they already can track installs, but yes it is illegal in the EU, Australia & the UK. The retroactive changes to licensing is also going to cause Unity legal issues.
 
Reactions: H T C

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,079
8,012
136
Microsoft now blocks "unauthorized" controllers on XBox. You don't own the console, it's a "service", yo!


Standard behaviour from Apple for a long time - MS are late to this particular racket, but catching up fast, I guess.

Technology really seems to be a means for corporations to grab power and control. Or, maybe, it's a kind of battle-ground, a three-way fight between dominant corporations, hackers, and state regulators?
 
Jul 27, 2020
16,563
10,565
106
Microsoft now blocks "unauthorized" controllers on XBox. You don't own the console, it's a "service", yo!
Sucks for the small companies that were just getting used to seeing some money and then BAM! Microsoft says pay them the license tax or get out of the Xbox accessory market. It almost feels like a trap. Should have blocked from the start. It's like some intern told the executives, hey, I'm seeing a LOT of unlicensed accessories connected to Xbox across the world so maybe we should monetize? Intern hired for a permanent position!
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,618
15,816
136
Sucks for the small companies that were just getting used to seeing some money and then BAM! Microsoft says pay them the license tax or get out of the Xbox accessory market. It almost feels like a trap. Should have blocked from the start. It's like some intern told the executives, hey, I'm seeing a LOT of unlicensed accessories connected to Xbox across the world so maybe we should monetize? Intern hired for a permanent position!
They need to be licensed by Microsoft. Pretty poor business plan to not become licensed to do so.
 
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