Discussion [WCCFTech] What’s Up With The Missing NVIDIA DLSS Support In AMD Sponsored FSR Titles?

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tajoh111

Senior member
Mar 28, 2005
299
312
136
I posted the following in a less relevant thread. It belonged here -

Jedi Survivor adds official DLSS support

https://www.ea.com/games/starwars/jedi/jedi-survivor/patch-notes?isLocalized=true

I guess the usual suspects will have to move the goalpost from blocking, to timed exclusive, depending on which games get DLSS and how long it takes?
It could be AMD simply back tracking on their policy as a result of the criticism.

It would not be the first time and changed their tune as a result of criticism. E.g Ryzen 5000 support on x470 Motherboards. What makes this more like this time around is AMD could have easily said they do not block features when this whole drama came about but they did not. Same thing happened to the RTX 4080 12gb naming.

Generally criticism of companies lead to positive outcomes. The fact Jedi survivor is finally getting DLSS support after AMD statement about not blocking features means AMD likely changed its policy. This is also positive for AMD owners which use FSR as it forces AMD to make the technology better.
 
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KompuKare

Golden Member
Jul 28, 2009
1,039
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The amount of endorsements seems really low though. Looking at other popular mods at nexusmods the number of endorsements usually seems to be closer to 1/10th of the downloads than to 1/100th like here.
It's harder to see the timeline of endorsements though. Maybe people generally only remember after X days?

However, I also think that with all the media storm about DLSS and Starfield that far more are downloading than otherwise might have including far more who then do not or cannot install it.
 

H433x0n

Senior member
Mar 15, 2023
926
1,013
96
I posted the following in a less relevant thread. It belonged here -

Jedi Survivor adds official DLSS support

https://www.ea.com/games/starwars/jedi/jedi-survivor/patch-notes?isLocalized=true

I guess the usual suspects will have to move the goalpost from blocking, to timed exclusive, depending on which games get DLSS and how long it takes?
No, it’s unambiguously a good thing. Let’s hope this signals a change and that we never have to argue over it again.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
28,663
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I find It hilarious that we are already at page 23, where we are arguing about missing upscaling techniques in games.
Soon we won't even know what It means playing at a native resolution and well optimized games will be only a myth.
I don't know bro, seems like some old same old to me. New consoles come out. The PC ports are messy. Our crowd gets spicy about the console effect ruining PC gaming. Rinse, lather, repeat.
 

GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
6,947
7,361
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Ah, good to know the "Thing that was never confirmed to be happening has now been unconfirmed to be unhappening" is not just limited to youtube clickbait and slow news days, but to all of us one and the same.

Feels good to be human.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
28,663
21,169
146
Ah, good to know the "Thing that was never confirmed to be happening has now been unconfirmed to be unhappening" is not just limited to youtube clickbait and slow news days, but to all of us one and the same.

Feels good to be human.
Orwell's 2 minutes of hate has been fully exploited into the modern rage bait industry. It used to be shills like Rollo running the hate machine. Fanning the flames when it would die to embers. Making stuff up for a disinformation campaign. And all for a crappy GPU. Now it's a whole youtube section.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
28,663
21,169
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Alternate tinfoil hypothesis: Maybe Nvidia is pulling a Bethesda and letting modders do its work for them.

Might see official support for XeSS in Starfield soon?
 

KompuKare

Golden Member
Jul 28, 2009
1,039
1,022
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Alternate tinfoil hypothesis: Maybe Nvidia is pulling a Bethesda and letting modders do its work for them.
The ultimate outsourcing?!

Plus prices at least at launch have been going up for ages.

(Mind you, there were supposed to have a had a $400 million budget. Somehow.)
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
28,663
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The ultimate outsourcing?!

Plus prices at least at launch have been going up for ages.

(Mind you, there were supposed to have a had a $400 million budget. Somehow.)
Subscriptions are all the rage for corpos. Amazon really drove that point home with how successful they have been using the model. Not that they were the first or anything. But all that money rolling in every month as result had all the other corpos going 🤑

Where I am going with this: Starfield may get a bunch of new game pass sign ups. Some will cancel as soon as they are tired of the game. Others will stay. Steady revenue makes corpo bean counters pants tight.

Here comes my speculation for an alternate reason DLSS is missing from Starfield. Because AMD blocking a trillion dollar company is tough for me to buy into. Microsoft started playing nice with Nvidia to try to get the Activision deal done. So it makes no sense for them to shut team green out of this game either.

However, Microsoft and Nvidia signed that 10yr deal to allow Geforce Now to stream Xbox games. While Starfield is exclusive to game pass, for how long? It is possible we could see Nvidia announcing Starfield on Geforce Now including DLSS and Frame generation in the very near future. It would certainly be a great way to promote their own subscription service.

I am probably off in left field. But this is certainly the thread for that.
 

Tup3x

Senior member
Dec 31, 2016
975
960
136
They finally added DLSS and frame generation to Jedi Survivor.

Native:


FSR:


DLSS quality:

Looks really good and stable. FSR is over sharpened (which causes aliasing), lacks fine detail and is there's flickering. DLSS and native do not use any sharpening which is good - it's impossible to fix over sharpening. In any case, good thing that I waited.
 
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sniffin

Member
Jun 29, 2013
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Orwell's 2 minutes of hate has been fully exploited into the modern rage bait industry. It used to be shills like Rollo running the hate machine. Fanning the flames when it would die to embers. Making stuff up for a disinformation campaign. And all for a crappy GPU. Now it's a whole youtube section.
If the backlash has led to change, then they've done the 80% of PC players without an AMD GPU a favor.
 
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KompuKare

Golden Member
Jul 28, 2009
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Really? That's based on what?
I don't believe 80% of PC players have 20, 30 or 40 series from Nvidia, I myself am still using 1650M.
Precisely. People tend to forget that the objective of DLSS is to sell new expensive Nvidia cards, and that the percentage of PC gamers who cannot use it is far higher than AMD's marketshare.

I know, Steam Hardware Survery with it's flawed methodology but however flawed it is, we have nothing else.

August 2023 summarised:

Yes, no idea what is all under Other. Maybe I should have excluded those?

But either way DLSS is 43% or so.
Cannot use any form of DLSS is 55%.
DLSS 3.0 FG is about 11%.
And of those who cannot any DLSS, the highest percentage by far are GTX users at 27.5% which is over twice as many as all AMD users.

So Nvidia serial upgraders got all worked up about the proprietary features they paid extra for not being universally supported, but none of their ire was directed at the one company which has been segmenting their own market with "premium" software features and has no intention of seeing wider adaption of their upscaler by making it something everyone can use - like Intel did with XeSS. Although at this stage it is too late and game and engine developers might not trust an Nvidia solution as being neutral.
 

sniffin

Member
Jun 29, 2013
141
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Yeah I'm not going to enter into another DLSS good/DLSS bad debate, it's been done a million times and everyone is firmly dug in. My statement should read they did 40%+ (always increasing) of PC players a favor so props to them.
 

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,263
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I find It hilarious that we are already at page 23, where we are arguing about missing upscaling techniques in games.
Soon we won't even know what It means playing at a native resolution and well optimized games will be only a myth.
So true. The more people embrace upscalers the lazier developers will be in optimizing their games. Users should be pushing back on developers by wanting native performance. Upscalers are a step backwards, not forwards.
 

DaaQ

Golden Member
Dec 8, 2018
1,333
957
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I'll take my D4 at native 1440p w a GTX 780 3gb with all 5 segment options lowered by 1 please. And 4 or 8 X aa with the included upscaler pulled down a notch.
 

Ranulf

Platinum Member
Jul 18, 2001
2,388
1,270
136
I am probably off in left field. But this is certainly the thread for that.

At this point I'm leaning towards typical marketing game playing, FUD spreading by team green. GN and HUB buying into this nonsense was really just sad. I guess the whole consumer watchdog ideal has clouded their analytical skills.

Edit to add, more to the theory that it is a Bethesda game and thus a wonky sub-optimal bug fest... Starfield has some I/O issues apparently.

 
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coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
6,257
12,196
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At this point I'm leaning towards typical marketing game playing, FUD spreading by team green. GN and HUB buying into this nonsense was really just sad. I guess the whole consumer watchdog ideal has clouded their analytical skills.
There's a difference between now and then: the initial question was legitimate, this radicalization stage where "AMD is lying because I say so" is a different beast. Keep in mind both GN and HUB gave AMD ample time to respond, they didn't just jump the bait.
 
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Mar 11, 2004
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It could be AMD simply back tracking on their policy as a result of the criticism.

It would not be the first time and changed their tune as a result of criticism. E.g Ryzen 5000 support on x470 Motherboards. What makes this more like this time around is AMD could have easily said they do not block features when this whole drama came about but they did not. Same thing happened to the RTX 4080 12gb naming.

Generally criticism of companies lead to positive outcomes. The fact Jedi survivor is finally getting DLSS support after AMD statement about not blocking features means AMD likely changed its policy. This is also positive for AMD owners which use FSR as it forces AMD to make the technology better.

I'm surprised we haven't seen anyone make a connection between that situation and the Zen4/AM5 stuff, as I think there's likely a direct correlation. That being that AMD knew mobo makers were playing too fast and loose, and was exactly why they were worried about Ryzen 5000 support (if I remember they said the power states/power gating stuff was why they were going to restrict it, and didn't that turn out to be the issue with AM5?). Now we see why AMD was apprehensive about offering that support.

No, it’s unambiguously a good thing. Let’s hope this signals a change and that we never have to argue over it again.

If only, but we'll have some other molehill to make a mountain.

I find It hilarious that we are already at page 23, where we are arguing about missing upscaling techniques in games.
Soon we won't even know what It means playing at a native resolution and well optimized games will be only a myth.

I think that ship has already sailed. While I don't like how much of this has been done, I actually don't totally hate it, and think there are uses for this.

They finally added DLSS and frame generation to Jedi Survivor.

Native:
View attachment 85421

FSR:
View attachment 85422

DLSS quality:
View attachment 85420
Looks really good and stable. FSR is over sharpened (which causes aliasing), lacks fine detail and is there's flickering. DLSS and native do not use any sharpening which is good - it's impossible to fix over sharpening. In any case, good thing that I waited.

I like how Nvidia one has like 50 more antennae than even native. Which is by far more noticeable than relative sharpening/softness. I'm sure its probably just simply a minor difference in proximity/LOD or something, but it shows how often such comparisons run into issues.

Yeah I'm not going to enter into another DLSS good/DLSS bad debate, it's been done a million times and everyone is firmly dug in. My statement should read they did 40%+ (always increasing) of PC players a favor so props to them.

That's a weird dismissal of their point whilst you explicitly agree with it by trying to twist it into a positive. Then again saying you're not entering a debate then going "yeah that thing that everyone hates about this, Nvidia deserves props for it!" is a bit...odd.

So true. The more people embrace upscalers the lazier developers will be in optimizing their games. Users should be pushing back on developers by wanting native performance. Upscalers are a step backwards, not forwards.

I think upscaling has its place (like for Steamdeck and similar devices), but its absurd that its basically being targeted as a big feature of the newest (and often highest end) hardware. I think also weird is that its being done in the software instead of leveraging say the video processing blocks that are already on the cards.

I think developing it as a separate use has other benefits. The streaming aspect being one, but imagine leveraging that to help improve games, not just to make them look more realistic, but as we move to Augmented Reality and we'll be overlaying rendered imagery on real world imagery. And think of integrating people into games (Star Trek Bridge style games, D&D style games, but also think of interactive games like music rhythm games where one person plays a DJ and controls the game while other people play; plus games like Rock Band really change how streaming and game interactivity is).

At this point I'm leaning towards typical marketing game playing, FUD spreading by team green. GN and HUB buying into this nonsense was really just sad. I guess the whole consumer watchdog ideal has clouded their analytical skills.

Edit to add, more to the theory that it is a Bethesda game and thus a wonky sub-optimal bug fest... Starfield has some I/O issues apparently.


Yeah the real question is why

There's a difference between now and then: the initial question was legitimate, this radicalization stage where "AMD is lying because I say so" is a different beast. Keep in mind both GN and HUB gave AMD ample time to respond, they didn't just jump the bait.

I don't agree. I think they jumped the bait by even acting like it was legitimate and chose to make videos on it when they still had literally no evidence to be claiming it. They essentially got goaded into being Nvidia's developer outreach.

Hey, how about I make up just completely baseless speculation. Nvidia made a fuss about DLSS which is why Starfield plays worse on AMD CPUs! Bethesda felt they had to sabotage AMD in some way so the dastardly duos' complicit agreement to not check a box to enable DLSS didn't get outed!
 
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