Discussion Who all here are against Trans rights in restrooms and showers? I have a question.

[Pohemi]

Why?

Because Trans athletes do not have some magical advantage over their cis-gendered peers. The idea that they do is just more rhetorical FUD and bullshit.

 

[Brainonska511]

In Europe they have unisex bathrooms. We can switch to those and have all stalls.

From a recent trip, that's not entirely true. In places more space-constrained, there were often just two stalls with a shared sink. In less space-constrained places, they still had separate bathrooms. I've seen this enough in the US too to say that it is not a rare arrangement.

The weirdest one in France I saw was in a restaurant, where the urinal was placed in a way that had little privacy from either someone going to the men's side or the women's side.

 

[Oyeve]

Because Trans athletes do not have some magical advantage over their cis-gendered peers. The idea that they do is just more rhetorical FUD and bullshit.

I disagree. IMO, a transgender woman most certainly has an advantage in cisgender female sports. You can argue all you want but I believe that. I just read an article about a transwoman who blew away the weightlift record for some cis-females event. So, yeah.

I have nothing against trans but in sports, nah.

 

[Pohemi]

I disagree. IMO, a transgender woman most certainly has an advantage in cisgender female sports. You can argue all you want but I believe that.

In other words, it doesn't matter what you might discover showing you otherwise...you "believe" it, so your opinion on it will not change.

Did I get that right?

 

[Oyeve]

In other words, it doesn't matter what you might discover showing you otherwise...you "believe" it, so your opinion on it will not change.

Did I get that right?

I am always open to facts, and will change my belief on anything. But, right now no certified, reputable expert or agency dares touch this topic for fear of liberal backlash. You seem to be taking this personally so lets just not, ok?

 

[nakedfrog]

I am always open to facts, and will change my belief on anything. But, right now no certified, reputable expert or agency dares touch this topic for fear of liberal backlash. You seem to be taking this personally so lets just not, ok?

FWIW, the USAF has been studying this and continues to do so, stating that there's a lack of studies on the matter. The Army may be too, but I don't really follow what the crayon-eaters are doing.

 

[kitkat22]

I am always open to facts, and will change my belief on anything. But, right now no certified, reputable expert or agency dares touch this topic for fear of liberal backlash. You seem to be taking this personally so lets just not, ok?

I will point out that it depends. I think the struggle in sports is it is a grey area and where do you draw the line. No matter where that line or cutoff is there are going to be unhappy individuals. The goal, in my opinion, is to be as fair to as many people as possible. In this case there is going to be exceptions no matter how we approach this.

For example, people look at testosterone as a key driver. While testosterone is a key driver in muscle and bone mass, women can also have varying degrees of testosterone despite being female at birth. PCOS individuals can have a marked increase in testosterone and even into male ranges. They have a distinct advantage. Should they be removed?

Another example, an intersex individual - they are born male, but on their history they are XX. The SRY gene got pushed to one of the X's. They identify as female. Their testosterone levels are mildly elevated as their gonads are not fully developed but they want to participate in sports.

Another scenario, a transgender individual who has not reached puberty or is on puberty blocking medications who wants to play sports.

I personally struggle with Lia Thomas and I am transgender. While I am a woman, I also realize my body developed down a male pathway and as a consequence I developed "advantages" during puberty. Being on HRT will drop a lot of those advantages, but not all of them. I personally think the debate will continue on for some time. I believe transgender individuals should be allowed in sports but with caveats.

Like I said, no matter where the line is drawn someone is going to be unhappy.

 

[Muse]

I don't care. I'll share a restroom with anybody as long as they don't bother me.

 

[skyking]

While some want to dwell on sports, it is such a minuscule part of our day to day living. I hope we can just step around that and move on to treating people as fellow earthlings.

 

[dainthomas]

I’m a straight white man in a fucking wheelchair. My wife and I march straight into the woman's bathroom if we can't find a family bathroom in the facility we’re visiting. She’d probably get some looks if we did that in the men's room!

I went to a concert and the line for the women's was ridiculous. In the 60 seconds I was in the men's, no fewer than three women strolled in to use a stall. Don't recall anyone caring.

 

[ElMonoDelMar]

That was my experience when I lived in a co-ed dorm in college. Women used our restroom regularly but all the guys stayed out of the women's restroom.

 

[shortylickens]

I am always open to facts, and will change my belief on anything. But, right now no certified, reputable expert or agency dares touch this topic for fear of liberal backlash. You seem to be taking this personally so lets just not, ok?

Prove it.
Prove your claim.
Prove that literally millions of reputable government employees are scared of "liberal backlash".
Prove anyone in America is scared of "liberal backlash".
Were the proud boys scared when they stormed the capital?
Were they scared when they ran down liberals at a protest?

 

[Drach]

Who gives a flying fuck. All bathrooms should be unisex

 

[shortylickens]

Who gives a flying fuck. All bathrooms should be unisex

Literally millions of people give a fuck.
Pull your head out from whatever you call the gluteus maximus.

 

[Lanyap]

"That has got to be the most ridiculous load of pig crap I have ever seen!"​

Assuming you have man parts, you never cut the cheese while peeing in a public restroom?

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I think it was about 18 years ago when it was reported in the papers that a mother wanted to pull the Merriam-Websters dictionary from her kid's public school classroom, because it gave a definition and explanation for "oral sex". Around that time, there were these outraged people trying to get an oil-painting removed from a museum for showing a woman's breast from profile. Hello?! What about Adam's penis on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel?!

I have come to the conclusion that the Righties who worry about Trans-ers in the bathroom are all sexually obsessive. TRANS-lation: They have dirty minds. They're really obsessed with an imagined importance of sexuality in the matter of their desire for getting to Heaven. They can't conceive of others having different beliefs that cannot be dismissed against their own beliefs. You have to live your life and pursue your happiness according to their vision, rather than your own.

I've had these views for a long time now: If you want to have an abortion or need to do so, you should be allowed to do it. If you want to swap out your toolbox and change your sex, I don't care how young you are if your parents are with you and the psychiatrist thinks it's a good idea. If you want to gay-marry -- even if it's just for the insurance -- you should be able to gay marry. If you want a wedding cake, you should be able to have one without a supreme court case. And how you dress or whether you've changed from your original toolbox is nobody's business but yours. Why the intolerance? Why the hate? Will civilization collapse because of gay marriage and toolbox swapping?

It's likely to collapse for failure to collectively deal with other serious problems, while these bible-thumping dirty-minded lunatics dominate the air-waves and our political system.

Maybe someone should run RuPaul for President in '24. I saw his show! I don't know what Ron DeSantis has his panties in a bunch about! I really cannot see how RuPaul's Drag show is going to corrupt children. I think the real danger with these people is the way the raise their own children in the first place.

 

[cytg111]

I will point out that it depends. I think the struggle in sports is it is a grey area and where do you draw the line. No matter where that line or cutoff is there are going to be unhappy individuals. The goal, in my opinion, is to be as fair to as many people as possible. In this case there is going to be exceptions no matter how we approach this.

For example, people look at testosterone as a key driver. While testosterone is a key driver in muscle and bone mass, women can also have varying degrees of testosterone despite being female at birth. PCOS individuals can have a marked increase in testosterone and even into male ranges. They have a distinct advantage. Should they be removed?

Another example, an intersex individual - they are born male, but on their history they are XX. The SRY gene got pushed to one of the X's. They identify as female. Their testosterone levels are mildly elevated as their gonads are not fully developed but they want to participate in sports.

Another scenario, a transgender individual who has not reached puberty or is on puberty blocking medications who wants to play sports.

I personally struggle with Lia Thomas and I am transgender. While I am a woman, I also realize my body developed down a male pathway and as a consequence I developed "advantages" during puberty. Being on HRT will drop a lot of those advantages, but not all of them. I personally think the debate will continue on for some time. I believe transgender individuals should be allowed in sports but with caveats.

Like I said, no matter where the line is drawn someone is going to be unhappy.

I have two transgender men in my circles, young and leftists, and they too is "yea but...". Its not an easy fix.

 

[cytg111]

Maybe there *should* be three stalls.
1. Men
2. Women
3. Snowflakes

 

[A///]

The last time I was in mainland europe they still had communal troughs for men outdoors. Not near a major city ofc but I found it hilarious. You can be taking a piss and greeting passerbys.

 

[brycejones]

I am always open to facts, and will change my belief on anything. But, right now no certified, reputable expert or agency dares touch this topic for fear of liberal backlash. You seem to be taking this personally so lets just not, ok?

Well that’s just false too. There has been research done and frankly it depends on a whole bunch of different factors.

Age of transitioning, treatments, and yes the levels of competition being discussed. Sometimes the gender an athlete identifies as or was assigned at birth doesn’t even matter because of other biological factors such as higher than normal testosterone production.

TLDR: it’s fucking complicated and just blanket statements of no trans people in sports is just short sighted and kind of bigoted.

 

[feralkid]

Maybe there *should* be three stalls.
1. Men
2. Women
3. Snowflakes

Refitting the snowflake stalls with floor drains may be cost-prohibitive.

 

[Vic]

Is it really that weird that I just don't care?

You do you and let me be me.

 

[Stokely]

Based on past evidence of actual kid-diddling, you'd do far more good banning Catholic priests from bathrooms than you would trans people.

That's if your worry is actual protection of kids, which we all know is not the real reason for any of the bigotry.

Are we above 0 for number of documented cases of trans people raping kids in bathrooms yet? I know the Catholic Church years ago admitted to hundreds of priests being guilty, which likely means multiply that number by a bunch.

 

[feralkid]

Prove it.
Prove your claim.
Prove that literally millions of reputable government employees are scared of "liberal backlash".
Prove anyone in America is scared of "liberal backlash".
Were the proud boys scared when they stormed the capital?
Were they scared when they ran down liberals at a protest?

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

 

[Greenman]

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

Umm....