Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

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Ghostsonplanets

Senior member
Mar 1, 2024
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Nuvia is seen as that much of a threat?
I thought ARM was mostly a meme.
Windows in Arm and Snap X Elite will receive an insane amount of push in the 2nd semester of this year. MS themselves will be the ones spearheading and trying to increase Windows on Arm adoption as part of their AI PC push. AMD will be fighting to keep WoA at bay, so that x86 marketshare keep stable.

AMD and Intel fighting against each other is fine because they can recover MSS later on due to each others designs being x86. But losing marketshare to Arm means your x86 market becomes smaller and also means that WoA will be taken more seriously by ISVs, which further threaten x86 designers.

There's a reason why AMD and Intel are fast tracking the release of their x86 competition against Snap X Elite (Strix Point and Lunar Lake).

As for Cortex X5 and Apple M4: Cortex X5 is supposed to be a nice IPC and performance bump and for Arm standard core designs to finally reach parity with Apple A/M series in ST performance. And Apple is Apple. Even if they haven't been able to improve upon their designs as much lately, it's still a very competitive and best in class core.
 

Mahboi

Senior member
Apr 4, 2024
547
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Because it's not free, at least? What are you gonna do, for example, with the supposed 30-40% Cac increase for a wider core, or with the corresponding increase in clock mesh power? To even get close to the efficiency of the previous gen's they have (had?) a hell of a lot to optimize
I would gladly answer your question if I knew what Cac or "clock mesh power" were.
I'm not a pro of this sector, I just like learning things.
 

Mahboi

Senior member
Apr 4, 2024
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There's a reason why AMD and Intel are fast tracking the release of their x86 competition against Snap X Elite (Strix Point and Lunar Lake).
Oooooh. I didn't realise MS was this powerful even against Intel/AMD.
The Arm meme may be a meme, but it is a popular meme, people will buy Arm stuff largely if they can, hoping for far better perf or efficiency. And when they don't find anything better, they'll convince themselves that it was a good investment and that x64 would've been worse. It could be serious.
 
Jul 27, 2020
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Only reason people are gonna get WoA laptops is the battery life. For anything else serious, it's gonna be Zen 5 mobile all the way. Nothing to worry about for AMD, at least this year.

ARM developers also gonna be faced with the conundrum of creating serious WoA applications. It's one thing to create "dumb" apps for mobile platform but you can't really take your offshore WFH third world development team comprised of less than a dozen team members and design a competent Windows application. I know because I deal with such a team and I can tell you that I have posted more than 5000 support tickets since 2015 due to their bugs. They just keep doing workarounds or patching over the bug without properly rewriting the code or even understanding what the original code written by some long gone developer is doing and keep on creating new "fun" bugs. So it's gonna be a long time before there are enough serious WoA applications to tilt the balance in favor of ARM or QC
 

Fjodor2001

Diamond Member
Feb 6, 2010
3,847
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Don't think QC will have any 32 thread monster to challenge 9950X.
But they have to consider pricing of all CPUs in the Zen5 range.

If there is price war on lower core count CPUs, that will affect higher core count CPUs too indirectly. Otherwise the price jump from lower core count to higher will be too big, so many people will opt for the lower core count variants instead. Then the higher core count CPUs will be left unsold, requiring a price drop eventually anyway.
 

Ghostsonplanets

Senior member
Mar 1, 2024
407
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So fierce competiton and price war.

No $999 CPU price, and fast dropping prices after launch?
Mobile /= Desktop DIY

AI PC push is mainly targeted towards driving adoption of new laptops or novel mobile designs by consumers. And also counter Apple M series Macbooks.

DT is not really a relevant market here for MS or OEMs.
 

Ghostsonplanets

Senior member
Mar 1, 2024
407
688
96
Oooooh. I didn't realise MS was this powerful even against Intel/AMD.
The Arm meme may be a meme, but it is a popular meme, people will buy Arm stuff largely if they can, hoping for far better perf or efficiency. And when they don't find anything better, they'll convince themselves that it was a good investment and that x64 would've been worse. It could be serious.

You can see by the direction of this year BUILD how H2 24 will take shape. Surface Consumer is also fully powered by Snap X Elite.

MS is going all in on Arm. And so are others OEMs (Dell, Samsung, Lenovo, Asus, etc)
 
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Fjodor2001

Diamond Member
Feb 6, 2010
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Anyone with a serious need for 32 threads will get the 9950X wayyyy before it's heavily discounted.
Why would 32 thread CPUs be any difference in this regard. You might as well say the same for the lower core count variants.

With Zen4 it didn’t take more than a few weeks after release until there were serious price cuts across the complete CPU range. The higher core count variants saw the highest price cuts.
 
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Jul 27, 2020
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Why would 32 thread CPUs be any difference in this regard. You might as well say that it’ll be the same about the lower core count variants.
Anyone willing to spend more than $500 on a CPU either has too much money to spare or their work depends a lot on having the fastest CPU available to save them time. Both types of people won't care about the $999 price tag as long as they can afford it. In the absence of competition, they will consider the extra money as well spent.

Similar thing has happened in GPUs. It started with $1000 Titan GPUs and now the consumer flagship is $2000 and people are still buying which goes to show that where there is a need, the price is mostly irrelevant. Geforce 4090 is CPU limited even at 4K. For starters, it is very possible that all Geforce 4090 owners will spend $999 to get the full potential out of their $2000 GPU. They will consider it as a necessary expense.
 
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Fjodor2001

Diamond Member
Feb 6, 2010
3,847
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Anyone willing to spend more than $500 on a CPU either has too much money to spare or their work depends a lot on having the fastest CPU available to save them time. Both types of people won't care about the $999 price tag as long as they can afford it. In the absence of competition, they will consider the extra money as well spent.
Then why did AMD drop the price of the 7950X the most of all the Zen4 DT variants soon after release?

Reason is of course that Zen DT is targetting price sensitive consumers. For max MT perf in business use, AMD EPYC is what will be bought. But that is a completely different CPU segment.
 
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