Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

[DisEnchantment]

Speculate at will

 

[uzzi38]

Oh wow. lmao.

You really don't know how AMD SMUs and IMC fw init works huh.

We're all good friends, kiddo.

good question.

I don't even work with them directly.

To be fair he's not wrong on one thing: a lot of PHX devices come with memory frequency settings available to play around with. I've seen it in some reviews of handhelds, and I'm sure my Win Mini has it too.

And not just a toggle between different rated frequencies, an input box for frequency and even timing control. It's actually really weird, because this wasn't a thing on prior parts. Whether or not the timing control works is a whole different issue, same goes for the memory frequency stuff, but they are there if nothing else.

(No I will not brick my device to try find out).

 

[adroc_thurston]

To be fair he's not wrong on one thing: a lot of PHX devices come with memory frequency settings available to play around with. I've seen it in some reviews of handhelds, and I'm sure my Win Mini has it too.

yeah I know but -halo runs very different f/w blobs due to you know what.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Source: Trust me bro, i'm an addict for tech and i know everything bro

well, yea.

What are you going to say next, that -halo will have CoWos-L or InFO-L?

-R. Cheap and good enough always wins.

 

[adroc_thurston]

You are such a funny little guy,

You don't need to be upset.

i bet you think the adoption of strix halo will be like dragon range 3d, just with asus.

Well I don't think.
It just is.

 

[adroc_thurston]

such a funny little guy

Upset again?
remember, you need to take your meds.

i bet you think it will only ship with 24gb for the 12 core, or 48 for the 16 core

DRAM segmentation is up to the OEM.

 

[adroc_thurston]

it's funny calling you what you are, a funny little guy

Meds. now.

i bet you think zarlak6 wont even be made.

Yes it's not a swimlane that's guaranteed to survive.
Not news?

 

[igor_kavinski]

Adroc, you sure know how to make interesting friends

 

[adroc_thurston]

What do you prefer, funny little guy, or neet little guy?, both are funny to call you, oh what about clown?, i ran out of things to ask you, thanks for the info idiot, you saved me lurking more shitty forums.

meds. please take your meds.

Adroc, you sure know how to make interesting friends

Something about unmedicated schizophrenics latching onto me.
Suffering.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Sounds like you need to touch some grass instead of being a "very not nice person" in general, looking at your previous statements, learn to socialize outside of discord ye creep.

Just take your meds.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Jist tiki yiir mids, clown.

Just medicate yourself.
it will help.

 

[Fjodor2001]

Given that Adroc hinted that Zen 6 desktop is more mobile-like than ever, this idea is not too far fetched in my opinion.

Then how is AMD gonna counter ARL Refresh 8P+32E on desktop?

Possibly 1x8C Zen5 + 2-3x8C Zen5C, until Zen6 is released.

Or if ARL Refresh is released close to Zen6 which would use mobile dies, 2-3x max dies that mobile uses. E.g. 2-3x dies with each 4C Zen6 + 8C Zen6C.

Also NPU and much bigger iGPU than currently is used on desktop, since inheriting from mobile.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Then how is AMD gonna counter ARL Refresh 8P+32E on desktop?

They don't have to.

Possibly 1x8C Zen5 + 2-3x8C Zen5C, until Zen6 is released.

They don't have to do anything.

Or if ARL Refresh is released close to Zen6 which would use mobile dies, 2-3x max dies that mobile uses. E.g. 2-3x dies with each 4C Zen6 + 8C Zen6C.

Mobile CCD !=halo/DT/luggable CCD.

Also NPU and much bigger iGPU than currently is used on desktop, since inheriting from mobile.

Oh no you're not getting that in Medusa DT.
'mobile' means they share IP and packaging, not configs.

 

[Fjodor2001]

They don't have to.

Right. If AMD is satisfied with being stomped on by ARL Refresh, they don’t have to counter it. But I don’t think AMD will be satisfied with that.

Mobile CCD !=halo/DT/luggable CCD.

So what die are you suggesting Zen6 DT will use? And what core variants and counts will each die contain? E.g. 4xZen6 + 8xZen6C per die? But 2-3x such dies on DT?

Oh no you're not getting that in Medusa DT.
'mobile' means they share IP and packaging, not configs.

But are you suggesting DT will share dies with mobile?

If so, those dies will contain NPU and iGPU too, right? Or you think mobile will use separate IOD containing NPU and iGPU, and DT will not use that mobile IOD but another one without NPU and lower spec iGPU?

 

[adroc_thurston]

Right. If AMD is satisfied with being stomped on by ARL Refresh, they don’t have to counter it.

but how?

So what die are you suggesting Zen6 DT will use?

two 8 core CCDs!

But 2-3x such dies on DT?

16 big cores. You don't need anything more!

But are you suggesting DT will share dies with mobile?

Yeah, mobile includes luggables/mobile WS/halo all that stuff.

If so, those dies will contain NPU and iGPU too, right?

SOC tiles share the IP, but not configs.
Mobile and luggables use different SOC tiles.

and DT will not use that mobile IOD but another one without NPU and lower spec iGPU?

They're SOC tiles.

 

[Joe NYC]

but how?

two 8 core CCDs!

16 big cores. You don't need anything more!

Yeah, mobile includes luggables/mobile WS/halo all that stuff.

SOC tiles share the IP, but not configs.
Mobile and luggables use different SOC tiles.

They're SOC tiles.

Would there be a benefit for SLC cache on desktop CPUs?

 

[adroc_thurston]

Would there be a benefit for SLC cache on desktop CPUs?

No.
Useful for laptops tho, can cache display/media hits.

 

[FlameTail]

No.
Useful for laptops tho, can cache display/media hits.

I have heard that a 25 MB SLC is sufficient to cache an entire 4K gaming framebuffer

 

[adroc_thurston]

I have heard that a 25 MB SLC is sufficient to cache an entire 4K gaming framebuffer

4 times that.
AMD has even those nice MALL graphs from Navi21 launch.

 

[FlameTail]

4 times that.
AMD has even those nice MALL graphs from Navi21 launch.

Ok then how much for a 1080p framebuffer?

 

[adroc_thurston]

Ok then how much for a 1080p framebuffer?

32-ish megs.

 

[Saylick]

Wow, this is like the most open I've seen @adroc_thurston in sharing info. lol

Must've gotten fed up with certain posters.

 

[Saylick]

To summarize, Zen 6 things should be pretty clear by now I hope...

- Will use CCDs + IOD for pretty much the entire client stack, from ultrabook chips to mobile workstations to desktop. CCDs remain the same, but IOD will differ depending on product.
- Mobile IODs will have Infinity Cache and varying levels of iGPU and NPU performance depending on the use case. I hope that mobile IODs have a low power core so that the CCDs can be shut down in period of low activity. Desktop IOD won't have the Infinity Cache or an NPU but likely keeps a small iGPU for basic display purposes.
- Infinity Fabric over CoWoS-R is what connects the CCDs to IOD. This should be pretty similar to what N31 uses.
- No mixing and matching of CCDs regarding Zen 6 Classic/Dense. CCDs are all Zen 6 Classic.
- My guess is that the Zen 6 CCD will likely still support 3D V-cache. You'll get V-cache in desktop. No idea if you'll get it on mobile.

 

[adroc_thurston]

CCDs remain the same,

Nope.

This should be pretty similar to what N31 uses.

It's similar to what -halo uses!
Which in effect makes it a prototype.

No mixing and matching of CCDs regarding Zen 6 Classic/Dense. CCDs are all Zen 6 Classic.

No idea, mobile ones may be 2CCX with dense.
At this stage configs aren't frozen.

 

[Saylick]

Nope.

Ohh, that's a good point since current mobile CCXs have half the L3 cache.

It's similar to what -halo uses!
Which in effect makes it a prototype.

Makes sense.

No idea, mobile ones may be 2CCX with dense.
At this stage configs aren't frozen.

Interesting.

Either way, I am starting to see what you mean about multiple chips w/ different configs but sharing the same IP.

 

[carancho]

Halo is expected for 25Q1? Q2? Did it change with the recent rumor of Zen5's simultaneous rollout across the lineup?