8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

[BFG10K]

8GB

• Dying Light 2, Battlefield 2042, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, Starfield, Forza Horizon 5, Horizon Forbidden West, Alan Wake 2, The Last of Us, Tekken 8, FC 24, Detroit Become Human, Death Stranding, Alone in The Dark, Overwatch 2
  3060 12GB higher 1% low than 4060 8GB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIfz57wmywg
• Cyberpunk 2077, Diablo 4, Hogwarts Legacy, Horizon Zero Dawn, Microsoft Flight Sim 2020, Witcher 3, Watch Dogs Legion skip to 4K + DLSS for each game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiaWWd0xGc
• Ratchet & Clank, Plague Tale Requiem, Last Of Us, Jedi Survivor, Far Cry 6, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Cyberpunk 2077 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr3MckDxMfE&pp=ygUTMTZnYiB2cyA4Z2IgNDA2MCB0aQ==
• Far Cry 6, Godfall, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Forspoken, Doom Eternal, Watchdogs Legion https://youtu.be/fJc--C01P90?t=268
• Last Of Us, Resident Evil 4, Callisto Protocol, Plague Tale Requiem, Halo Infinite, Forspoken https://youtu.be/2_Y3E631ro8?t=429
• Last Of Us, Hogwarts Legacy, Resident Evil 4, Forspoken, Plague Tale Requiem, Callisto Protocol https://youtu.be/Rh7kFgHe21k?t=288
• Hogwarts Legacy, Last Of Us, Spider Man Remastered, Doom Eternal, Forza Horizon 5 https://youtu.be/R943CbDTq_s?t=1473
• Horizon Forbidden West 4060 has issues @ 1080p + DLSS unless you switch off frame generation and reduce settings to high https://youtu.be/3AyKvI23VGw?t=233
• Horizon Forbidden West 3070 requires reducing textures 2 notches https://youtu.be/xTwEGy6HHKo?t=351
• Deathloop https://youtu.be/lu_XHyO-6zY?t=918
• Ghost Recon Breakpoint https://youtu.be/iUGppQVpXzU?t=529
• Resident Evil 2 https://youtu.be/Aa-gsgRjMII?t=796
• Talos Principle 2 https://youtu.be/K6FATQAuEwI?t=337
• Spider Man Remastered https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1060
• Witcher 3 https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1240

Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.

Spoiler

Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:

Spoiler

Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

Spoiler

10GB / 12GB

• Plague Tale Requiem 3080 10GB tanks if you enable ray tracing, would be fast enough if it had more VRAM because if you stop moving, the framerate stabilizes to >60FPS https://youtu.be/7zjrMww3fAc?t=496
• Hogwarts Legacy 4K + RT, 4060Ti 16GB is faster than 4070 12GB https://youtu.be/X-h_R488Mq8?t=191

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.

Spoiler

1. It's the player's fault.
2. It's the reviewer's fault.
3. It's the developer's fault.
4. It's AMD's fault.
5. It's the game's fault.
6. It's the driver's fault.
7. It's a system configuration issue.
8. Wrong settings were tested.
9. Wrong area was tested.
10. Wrong games were tested.
11. 4K is irrelevant.
12. Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
13. Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
15. It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
16. It's an anomaly.
17. It's a console port.
18. It's a conspiracy against NV.
19. 8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
21. Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.

According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!

 

[Ranulf]

Good point, I'd forgotten about those 2060 12GB cards.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Good point, I'd forgotten about those 2060 12GB cards.

I did too, and I am going to promptly forget about it again. Sells for about the same money as a used 3060 12GB. If it were $150 or less it'd be a far more interesting card.

As to vs 2080 super in HZD:FW - The super does well at 1080 medium. Set them both to medium and then max textures on the 2060 12GB, and you get a much better visual experience on that setting alone. It's where the rubber meets the road; all else being equal, textures are the most important setting. This game for the time being at least, shows notable quality loss with each step down in textures. Patches and drivers may work this out to be visually acceptable as with games like The Last of Us. Until if or when that happens, 8GB cards are sad trombone noises.

I also agree with you about this series; it's not really doing it for me. I am playing the first one right now, and it's very meh. Started playing months ago and dropped it for other games. I have done some grinding but I think I am going to stop and just push through the main quests before I have lost any motivation to play it again. I was hoping that like the Witcher 3 once I got over the initial hump it'd pull me in.

 

[BFG10K]

The minimums are better on the 16GB card so the GPU horsepower is useless if there is too much shuffling between VRAM and system RAM.

A few pages ago we were told minimums don't matter. We were also told blurry textures don't matter because they're just the "game's LOD system".

I'm glad I started this thread because I'm constantly getting educated about how things work(tm).

 

[Timorous]

A few pages ago we were told minimums don't matter. We were also told blurry textures don't matter because they're just the "game's LOD system".

I'm glad I started this thread because I'm constantly getting educated about how things work(tm).

And then you can't even turn on frame gen because that uses more VRAM so the 16GB 4060Ti gets a boost and the 8GB loses even more performance. Upscaling did not really help the 8GB card much either because even at 1080p very high it was exceeding 8GB so if you are upscaling from 1080p to 4K or 1440p you have the same issue unless you turn down textures.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

W1z needs to pick a better place to test next time. From his conclusion -

Our VRAM testing shows that Forbidden West is quite reasonable with its memory requirements. 8 GB is enough even for 4K at highest settings, which is also confirmed by our RTX 4060 Ti 8 GB vs 16 GB results—there's no performance difference between both cards, even when maxed out. For lower resolutions, the VRAM requirements are a bit on the high side, because even 1080p at lowest settings reaches around 5 GB, which could make things difficult for older 4 GB-class cards.

 

[BFG10K]

OP has been updated to explicitly list games in the videos that show a problem.

"Oh...oh...it's just a couple corner cases, and the games aren't even AAA or popular!"
That's a lie.

Also multiple sources confirm problems in many of the same games.

"The site is biased! The test is a one-off anomaly!"
Again, lies.

 

[Ranulf]

W1z needs to pick a better place to test next time. From his conclusion -

Hardware requirements of the game are pretty reasonable. In order to reach 60 FPS at 1080p with the highest settings you only need a RX 5700 XT, RTX 4060 or RX 6600 XT. Got a 1440p monitor? Then you need a RTX 4060 Ti, RTX 3070, RX 6700 XT or RX 7700 XT. 4K60? Radeon RX 6900 XT, RTX 4070 Ti and RTX 3090 Ti are required—not exactly mid-range, but still pretty manageable. As always we opted for our own custom test scene, which runs in a typical open-world location with vegetation and water. There's some indoors location that run at much higher FPS. Both AMD and NVIDIA cards are positioned roughly where we usually see them in our performance charts. Intel's A770 falls a bit behind, despite the use of optimized drivers. It's interesting to see that the older RDNA 2 cards run very well in Horizon Forbidden West, a bit better than the modern RDNA 3 models (for example RX 6800 XT beating RX 7800 XT).

Horizon Forbidden West Performance Benchmark Review - 30 GPUs Tested

Horizon Forbidden West finally brings the PS5 Exclusive to the PC, with stunning visuals and an excellent gaming experience. There's also support for multiple upscalers and DLSS 3 Frame Generation. In our performance review, we're taking a closer look at image quality, VRAM usage, and...

www.techpowerup.com

Custom test scene in open world location with weeds and water. Looking at the charts for min fps, that 5700XT gets 51 fps at 1080p "max settings".

 

[BFG10K]

Add Forbidden West to the list of games where it's sponsored by one vendor but runs better on a competitor's hardware. 2080 Super is big OOF

Spoiler

Interesting how the 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.

No question all three 8GB cards are capacity starved.

 

[Hitman928]

Horizon Forbidden West Performance Benchmark Review - 30 GPUs Tested

Horizon Forbidden West finally brings the PS5 Exclusive to the PC, with stunning visuals and an excellent gaming experience. There's also support for multiple upscalers and DLSS 3 Frame Generation. In our performance review, we're taking a closer look at image quality, VRAM usage, and...

www.techpowerup.com

Custom test scene in open world location with weeds and water. Looking at the charts for min fps, that 5700XT gets 51 fps at 1080p "max settings".

Quickly skimming their forum, looks like at least a couple of users with 8 GB cards reporting that they have issues unless they turn down some settings (specifically textures) which confirms what Tom's testing shows (but TPU's didn't).

 

[blckgrffn]

I did too, and I am going to promptly forget about it again. Sells for about the same money as a used 3060 12GB. If it were $150 or less it'd be a far more interesting card.

As to vs 2080 super in HZD:FW - The super does well at 1080 medium. Set them both to medium and then max textures on the 2060 12GB, and you get a much better visual experience on that setting alone.

Yeah, used card prices are dumb. EVGA was dumping them directly for less than $200 what seems like 2 years ago now. It might have only been a year... yeah, last January I got one for a friends build for $186 on eBay. This guy was upgrading from a GTX 460 768MB so I thought I would get the most future proof card I could get at $200 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 2060 Supers and all those cards were bunched up right there but I went with best/cheapest 12GB card I could find.

Looks like prices are still the same or a little higher. It's almost like the market is speaking and saying that 12GB+ cards are worth more money. They are selling for $50+ more than 2060 Supers, which given the full 256bit bus should be faster if 8GB was enough.

It does look like if you are patient you can get a auction listing 2060 12GB for ~$170 but most are going for more like $190-210.



So... it happens

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Quickly skimming their forum, looks like at least a couple of users with 8 GB cards reporting that they have issues unless they turn down some settings (specifically textures) which confirms what Tom's testing shows (but TPU's didn't).

Confirmation wasn't necessary. The vid I posted is gameplay with the cards and settings. You can watch for yourself where the 8GB craps the bed. You can see the differences in textures, the pop in, the shadow glitching. Traditional reviews are fine for most stuff, but for games? Someone needs to actually play them, not just test them.

 

[BFG10K]

Found another round of numbers, games in red are new examples we haven't seen before. Skip to 4K + DLSS for each game.

Cyberpunk 2077, Diablo 4, Hogwarts Legacy, Horizon Zero Dawn, Microsoft Flight Sim 2020, Witcher 3, Watch Dogs Legion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiaWWd0xGc

Diablo4: 16GB has more than twice the average FPS while 8GB has abysmal stuttering lows.

Spoiler

Now quickly, back to your foxholes, bois! There's a barrage of 37 Diablo4 screenshots on a GTX970 at "correct settings" incoming. Take cover!

 

[Timorous]

Found another round of numbers, games in red are new examples we haven't seen before. Skip to 4K + DLSS for each game.

Cyberpunk 2077, Diablo 4, Hogwarts Legacy, Horizon Zero Dawn, Microsoft Flight Sim 2020, Witcher 3, Watch Dogs Legion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiaWWd0xGc

Diablo4: 16GB has more than twice the average FPS while 8GB has abysmal stuttering lows.

Spoiler

Now quickly, back to your foxholes, bois! There's a barrage of 37 Diablo4 screenshots on a GTX970 at "correct settings" incoming. Take cover!

That means playing Diablo 4 a lot which is not great when you have Last Epoch or Path of Exile as alternatives.

Computerbase.de did the D4 testing at launch and found it used up a lot of VRAM but seeing the 16GB 0.1% lows ahead of the 8GB averages shows how different the game play experience is. While I am sure you could tune D4 to work with the 8GB GPU just fine you are taking a huge IQ hit to do that. This is an example where I would be interested to see how the 3060 12GB performs because potato compute can run D4 well, it runs great on the steam deck which is a weedy GPU (plenty of VRAM though given it is unified).

 

[Ranulf]

Not surprising. They had a bug last year in the first beta test weekend where it forced 4k textures on everyone, no matter the resolution. D4 was using all of my 8GB vram for 1080p and 21GB of system ram.

 

[psolord]

This is where you're wrong. Try to get @psolord to agree on anything in this thread, any of the bulletpoints above. You will quickly notice you can't really get a straight answer from him.

Let me show you how it works, alas I'm a simple padawan:

• 8 GB is too little for 1440p now and for the future. Maybe, but UE5 titles will destroy any current card. Shading power is what matters going forward. 8GB cards are 1080p cards really, and there's a finite amount of memory required for 1080p in games.
• 8 GB at this time is fine budget 1080p. I have a few 8GB cards and they are not the same. They are built differently, each with a different experience. These cards do not belong in the same price category, just like not all eggs belong in the same basket.
• 8 GB is a current compromise at 1440p and higher but if you dial stuff down it works. Look at how 4060Ti is beating the 3060 in game X and Y and Z [SCREENSHOT][SCREENSHOT][SCREENSHOT][SCREENSHOT][SCREENSHOT], more memory won't save you friend. The shading apocalypse is coming.
• Some cards have more memory than the GPU can use now but texture packs exist . The 4060Ti 16GB is a different price tier for people looking for a different experience. It's really that simple.

I agree!

See that wasn't so difficult.

 

[psolord]

Here's a perfect example of why reviewers having 30 second or less test runs is useless to the VRAM debate. And makes throwing around their results as evidence a fool's errand. Forbidden West doesn't have vram issues they said. It'll run great they said. LULZ

This is the 4060 crapping the bed at 1080 with the features that are heavily promoted as being a reason to buy it, by overflowing into system ram.

I uploaded my own tests and clearly showed what my good 8GB card, the 3060ti could do. It's not my fault you (not you) choose to ignore them.

Here it is again.

It uses the high preset with VERY HIGH textures and max anisotropy. It runs fine. It's a 20 minute run.



The very high preset is too heavy for a multitude of reasons. It's not just the textures.

 

[psolord]

Notice the 1% lows too. With or without FG its under 60fps at very high qual. Same at high settings too, 53fps 1% low there.

2 year old ps4/5 console port. Good looking but enjoy those nice new premium features that need more than 8GB of ram.

Premium features my heiny.

The PS5 anisotropic can drop to 4X.

You can use this very important setting on any 8GB card.

 

[mikeymikec]

The thing I understand least about the TPU reviewer was the fact that they posted this graph:

Spoiler

That graph tells me that this game on the highest detail settings is problematic even at 1600x900 because if we were talking about system RAM getting this high there would be a unanimous agreement that more RAM is needed with that little headroom left, let alone that 8GB is obviously being breached by the time it gets to 4k... then of course they post graphs showing 4060ti 8GB and 16GB performance being identical and didn't notice the obvious discrepancy. I wonder if they inadvertently enabled upscaling partway through the test or something similar.

One other thing that puzzles me though is that I posted earlier in this thread about checking VRAM usage when I first fired up HZD (pre Forbidden West) on my new setup inc. 12GB graphics card and seeing 10GB VRAM usage on max settings. I might try the same test again and see what happens.

 

[psolord]

Diablo4: 16GB has more than twice the average FPS while 8GB has abysmal stuttering lows.

Now quickly, back to your foxholes, bois! There's a barrage of 37 Diablo4 screenshots on a GTX970 at "correct settings" incoming. Take cover!

The 4060ti 8GB is the 23rd card in TPUs current standing. What makes you think that a user with a 4K panel, would choose a 4060ti to drive it, even with DLSS?

The 4060ti 8GB is a very good 1080p card. Nothing more. And as far as Diablo IV is concerned, it does a great job.

New benchmarks with the newly RT added



I mean I don't know, the 4060ti is even beating the 6800 16GB at 1080p. Crazy right?

And it is absolutely destroying the 6750XT/6700XT right? But they were running Forbidden West better. Is it a matter of vram alone, or what manufacturer each game favors?

Also see the 8GB AMD cards. It's not the first time we see this and that's why you were posting 7600XT 16GB screens to show how much better it is compared to the 7600. I mean there's something wrong with AMD's 8GB cards in some games. Nvidia is either doing better memory management, or has better asset compression, or both.

Unfortunately I don't have a GTX 970 run of diablo IV. I bet it would run ok with the correct settings yes. However I do have an rx6600 run of it at 1080p Ultra on the bugged beta non the less.

Compare that 100fps with the 3pfs of the RT benchmarks and tell me how a user cannot set himself up for failure, if he uses stupid settings?

 

[Timorous]

What makes you think that a user with a 4K panel, would choose a 4060ti to drive it, even with DLSS?

People who use their 4k panel for work mostly but still want to play some games and don't want a second screen. The 4060Ti should be a solid 1440p card so upscaling from 1440p to 4K should be perfectly doable with the amount of compute performance it has.

 

[psolord]

People who use their 4k panel for work mostly but still want to play some games and don't want a second screen. The 4060Ti should be a solid 1440p card so upscaling from 1440p to 4K should be perfectly doable with the amount of compute performance it has.

Well then THAT user, should have chosen a better card overall. You can't have everything from the 23rd card in the row and when you crank everything over 9000 complain about it.

I got a 4070ti, for that exact same usage. 4k/dlss. Still has performance problems. GPU problems, not vram problems. How on earth a 4060ti could cope with that?

 

[SolidQ]

4060ti is even beating the 6800 16GB at 1080p.

Yeah, but anyway RT in D4 is most useless feature, in most situations is zero difference between raster.

 

[coercitiv]

Yeah, but anyway RT in D4 is most useless feature, in most situations is zero difference between raster.

The biggest IQ improvements of this patch are Ambient Occlusion and Contact Shadows. The game was already "flat" in terms of colors, the extra depth from these shadow types was needed.

 

[MrPickins]

Well then THAT user, should have chosen a better card overall.

Or, you know, Nvidia could have spent a few bucks to double the VRAM so the card could actually live up to its potential.

At this point, I'm half convinced you're trolling. You continually ignore historical precedent and many many examples of the issue. Instead, you stick your fingers in your ears, and toss out a few examples where the issue doesn't exist, claiming that since that game with those settings isn't a problem, clearly it's NBD.

You're here to confirm your bias or troll. Which is it?

 

[SolidQ]

The biggest IQ improvements of this patch are Ambient Occlusion and Contact Shadows

Still useless for ARPG type game. most people will reduce graphic, it's button mash type game.
I'm even in POE reduce graphic to medium/low for better vision and reduced effects