Question AMD Phoenix/Zen 4 APU Speculation and Discussion

[uzzi38]

I can finally make this thread.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1519669375283957760

Phoenix is indeed RDNA3. My advice to everyone: treat the old APU rumours as being out of date.

 

[moinmoin]

If you want to play with any settings, then the only option is Universal X86 Tuning Utility.

As it builds upon RyzenAdj that should work as well. So it's a matter of preference if one prefers GUI or CLI.

 

[Panino Manino]

Just a simple question, how fast is a Zen 4C?
As fast as Zen 2, Zen 3?

I was wondering, why AMD still didn't make a custom APU for these Steam Deck "clones" with Zen 4C cores only?

 

[Abwx]

Just a simple question, how fast is a Zen 4C?
As fast as Zen 2, Zen 3?

As fast as a Zen 4.

 

[Panino Manino]

As fast as a Zen 4.

But the average clock is lower, so in practice it should perform more like last gen Zen 3, no?

 

[Abwx]

But the average clock is lower, so in practice it should perform more like last gen Zen 3, no?

At 3.55GHz it is supposed to perform like a Zen3@4GHz, and set apart a few 105W TDP/142W PPT desktop parts there was no Zen 3 based SKU that did boost to 4GHz with all cores, so the 3.55 max frequency is not an issue for mobile parts.

 

[trivik12]

We still dont have any laptop with 7545U phoenix 2 chip? It was announced a while ago(November if I am not wrong?)

 

[SteinFG]

Just a simple question, how fast is a Zen 4C?
As fast as Zen 2, Zen 3?

I was wondering, why AMD still didn't make a custom APU for these Steam Deck "clones" with Zen 4C cores only?

Because the price AMD (and therefore, OEMs) would pay to make it far outweighs the benefits. Tens of millions of dollars for a piece of silicon that can already be matched by Phoenix1 which is produced at scale for all laptops/desktops? Not worth it, just stick to Phoenix.

 

[Det0x]

Have pretty much completed my benchmark run with the 8700G, lots of Norwegian flags

If you guys want me to run some other cpy/memory benchmarks please let me know

Please try to test in two configurations: highest bandwidth and lowest latency.

Here are my two 24/7 daily memory configurations 👍

2:1 8800MT/s + 2550mhz FCLK


2:1 8800MT/s 2200mhz FCLK "synced"


Memory timings for both profiles are 100% stable, tested in the following:

• 40k Karhu @ 333.45mb/s
• 17.5k GB3 memoryscore
• 23 cycles testmem5 1usmus (conflict with hwinfo made it stop running)
• 1 hour y-cruncher all memtests
• Small Linpack Xtreme powercheck

 

[igor_kavinski]

If you guys want me to run some other cpy/memory benchmarks please let me know

I was trying out Street Fighter 6 benchmark on my Ice Lake CPU at the highest settings with 4 to 5 fps ( ). Unfortunately it keeps crapping out with D3D errors. Can you please try and see if it finishes and post the score?

https://www.streetfighter.com/6/benchmark/en/

And MemMaxx2 screenshots for your both daily mem configurations. Thanks!

And if you still have time to spare, 3DMark11 score (it's free in UL legacy benchmarks page) and the combined CPU/GPU benchmark score with settings cranked all the way to max.

 

[Det0x]

I was trying out Street Fighter 6 benchmark on my Ice Lake CPU at the highest settings with 4 to 5 fps ( ). Unfortunately it keeps crapping out with D3D errors. Can you please try and see if it finishes and post the score?

https://www.streetfighter.com/6/benchmark/en/

And MemMaxx2 screenshots for your both daily mem configurations. Thanks!

And if you still have time to spare, 3DMark11 score (it's free in UL legacy benchmarks page) and the combined CPU/GPU benchmark score with settings cranked all the way to max.

I'm not using the IGPU, thats why i said cpu/memory benchmarks
I can ask a mate of mine to run them tho

In the meantime, here are some more recent 3dmark's he have run on the 8500G with IGPU

 

[igor_kavinski]

I'm not using the IGPU

So it needs to be disabled for these high speeds?

 

[Det0x]

So it needs to be disabled for these high speeds?

No i can run these settings just fine with IGPU, but i have a watercooled 3090 connected... dont want the hazzle of removing it.
And i added a few pictures to my post above 👍

 

[igor_kavinski]

No i can run these settings just fine with IGPU, but i have a watercooled 3090 connected... dont want the hazzle of removing it.

You don't have to remove it by the way. Just set the iGPU as the default GPU for the SF6 and 3DMark11 executables.

 

[Abwx]

Some numbers from AMD about Hawk Point, there s other slides for AI numbers in the link but i post only the ones of interest CPU wise :

AMD Ryzen Pro: 8000er Serie soll nicht nur Intel, sondern auch Apple schlagen

AMD Ryzen Pro 8000 soll alle vom Platz fegen: Nicht nur Intel Meteor Lake, sondern auch Apples M3 Pro. Alles ist super, zeigt AMD. Oder?

www.computerbase.de

 

[igor_kavinski]

@FlameTail

Look at the battery life slide

 

[uzzi38]

Battery life there shouldn't be too surprising, Teams is the literal best case workload for AMD vs their competitors and they're comparing against M3 Pro, which does sport worse battery life than the base M3. Across an average of multiple tests Hawk Point wouldn't look that good, but I mean, it's still a solid showing that they can compete in any metric (that's not power under full load) I guess.

 

[Abwx]

Battery life say that for a same amount of work MTL used in average 11W while HPoint used 7.7W, this is due to the fact than not only AMD use a more efficient process but also MTL idle power being higher once the complete chip is fired.

This is correlated by the MSI Claw review that pointed to around 7W idling when all parts of the CPU are under use but with only the OS as load, in real usage Intel can no more use irrelevant figures to artificialy boost the battery life numbers such as local videoplay with only the two e cores running and the rest of the chip gated off.

For full load the CPU Vray test point to 3% better perf for Hawk Point@15W relatively to MTL@28W, so the figure would be no different than in the battery life slide, that is, roughly 45-50% better battery life at full load and at about same perf.

 

[Hitman928]

Anyone have the end notes to those AMD slides? There's no way Zen 4 has that much of a lead against MTL in office productivity work, all else being equal.

 

[Abwx]

Anyone have the end notes to those AMD slides? There's no way Zen 4 has that much of a lead against MTL in office productivity work, all else being equal.

These are in the Computerbase article but anyway here they are if you have the patience to read through such a wall of text :

AMD Ryzen Pro: 8000er Serie soll nicht nur Intel, sondern auch Apple schlagen

AMD Ryzen Pro 8000 soll alle vom Platz fegen: Nicht nur Intel Meteor Lake, sondern auch Apples M3 Pro. Alles ist super, zeigt AMD. Oder?

www.computerbase.de

 

[Hitman928]

These are in the Computerbase article but anyway here they are if you have the patience to read through such a wall of text :

AMD Ryzen Pro: 8000er Serie soll nicht nur Intel, sondern auch Apple schlagen

AMD Ryzen Pro 8000 soll alle vom Platz fegen: Nicht nur Intel Meteor Lake, sondern auch Apples M3 Pro. Alles ist super, zeigt AMD. Oder?

www.computerbase.de

Thanks, I don’t see anything unusual in there except that some of their MTL testing was done at launch so maybe immature firmware played a role but either way, those office tests do not represent reality today.

 

[SteinFG]

Looking at 8400F specs, it's a downgraded 8600G, not 8500G

8400F has more PCIe lanes than 8500G; it has no c cores (unlike 8500G), and has a high base clock (unlike 8500G)

On performance, it's probably on par with Ryzen 5600, but I didn't find any conclusive tests

 

[Abwx]

Looking at 8400F specs, it's a downgraded 8600G, not 8500G

8400F has more PCIe lanes than 8500G; it has no c cores (unlike 8500G), and has a high base clock (unlike 8500G)

On performance, it's probably on par with Ryzen 5600, but I didn't find any conclusive tests

It should be 14% faster than a 5600X and match a 5700X.

AMD Ryzen 8700G & 8600G im Test: Gaming, Multimedia, Apps: App-Benchmarks, Multimedia und Stromverbrauch

Ryzen 7 8700G & 5 8600G (OC) im Test: App-Benchmarks, Multimedia und Stromverbrauch / Testmethodik für Anwendungen

www.computerbase.de