Question AMD Phoenix/Zen 4 APU Speculation and Discussion

[uzzi38]

I can finally make this thread.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1519669375283957760

Phoenix is indeed RDNA3. My advice to everyone: treat the old APU rumours as being out of date.

 

[SteinFG]

That doesn't support ECC either.

Are you certain? On AMD's processor page it says ECC is supported (if motherboard supports ECC)

 

[jpiniero]

Are you certain? On AMD's processor page it says ECC is supported (if motherboard supports ECC)

Yeah. Finding an AM5 board which supports it might be difficult.

 

[igor_kavinski]

ASROCK has two:



Availability may be the problem.

 

[SteinFG]

Yeah. Finding an AM5 board which supports it might be difficult.

AM5 consumer motherboards with full (reporting and correcting) ECC?

I have no issues with Intel i225 myself on my Asus board but I guess there are edge cases. I use the Micron memory and it works great, in my Asus X670E Creator mobo.

forum.level1techs.com

Seems like TUF X670E supports ecc ($280 though), read the thread

 

[eek2121]

Boards may support it, even though support isn’t advertised.

I know, it is a bit frustrating. It is possible that every board probably supports it.

 

[gdansk]

I don't know if anyone else remembers this but at launch basically half of all X670E boards said they support ECC. But then the manufacturers edited the specifications later and removed it.

I tested it on my ASRock X670E Steel Legend and it would boot with ECC DDR5 UDIMMs but did not enable the memory correction.

Page 33 - Question - Zen 4 builders thread

Page 33 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

forums.anandtech.com

And ASRock claimed in an email that the AGESA versions supplied from AMD didn't include ECC support except the first version.

 

[trivik12]

First review of Hawk Point from Notebookcheck.

AMD Ryzen 8000 Hawk Point in testing - Zen4 refresh outperforms Meteor Lake in number crunching and GPU perfromance

Notebookcheck analyzed the AMD Ryzen 9 8945HS (Hawk Point) in the Asus ROG Zephyrus G14, providing a comparison with Intel Meteor Lake.

www.notebookcheck.net

it appears to be similar to phoenix at this point. Of course there are no NPU specific benchmarks.

 

[Doug S]

Are you certain? On AMD's processor page it says ECC is supported (if motherboard supports ECC)

Ah I had looked at the specs page but not the "full specs" lol

The graphics on the 7600 appear pretty weak and it doesn't have the configurable TDP, but may be an alternative. I'll have to check the reviews about how it performs power and graphics wise. I don't understand why the Ryzen 7000 line supports ECC but the 8000 does not. Maybe AMD is backing off from ECC like Intel, who knows.

That's disappointing news about the ASrock motherboards from gdansk. I had assumed they supported ECC since their specs claimed they did. If they are lying about that then I have to take them off my list and I guess I'm SOL as far as finding any affordable combination of CPU+board that does ECC.

I guess I'm going to have to forget about ECC, and start from scratch looking at Intel & AMD alternatives without ECC being a factor. I had pretty much crossed Intel off the list due to their requirement for the Wxxx boards, but it sounds like finding an AMD board that supports it is just as hard plus most of the CPUs don't either!

Thanks everyone for filling me in and preventing an annoying mistake and buying then having to return a bunch of stuff. Time to start over!

 

[tamz_msc]

The current state of Ryzen AI in Windows:

Testing AMD Ryzen 9 7940HS' AI Engine in Windows 11 - CNX Software

Some of the newer AMD Ryzen processors come with an AI Engine (also called NPU or IPU) that works in Windows 11 including the Ryzen 9 7940HS, Ryzen 7

www.cnx-software.com

 

[maddie]

Ah I had looked at the specs page but not the "full specs" lol

The graphics on the 7600 appear pretty weak and it doesn't have the configurable TDP, but may be an alternative. I'll have to check the reviews about how it performs power and graphics wise. I don't understand why the Ryzen 7000 line supports ECC but the 8000 does not. Maybe AMD is backing off from ECC like Intel, who knows.

That's disappointing news about the ASrock motherboards from gdansk. I had assumed they supported ECC since their specs claimed they did. If they are lying about that then I have to take them off my list and I guess I'm SOL as far as finding any affordable combination of CPU+board that does ECC.

I guess I'm going to have to forget about ECC, and start from scratch looking at Intel & AMD alternatives without ECC being a factor. I had pretty much crossed Intel off the list due to their requirement for the Wxxx boards, but it sounds like finding an AMD board that supports it is just as hard plus most of the CPUs don't either!

Thanks everyone for filling me in and preventing an annoying mistake and buying then having to return a bunch of stuff. Time to start over!

AMD Ryzen APUs have generally reserved the ECC functionality for the "Pro" versions. It's there, but locked out in the retail ones.

 

[jpiniero]

The current state of Ryzen AI in Windows:

Testing AMD Ryzen 9 7940HS' AI Engine in Windows 11 - CNX Software

Some of the newer AMD Ryzen processors come with an AI Engine (also called NPU or IPU) that works in Windows 11 including the Ryzen 9 7940HS, Ryzen 7

www.cnx-software.com

It's OK if it doesn't work since the AI is just there for Wall Street to fawn over.

For the best anyway... FPGA in client products scares me a bit.

 

[Thunder 57]

The current state of Ryzen AI in Windows:

Testing AMD Ryzen 9 7940HS' AI Engine in Windows 11 - CNX Software

Some of the newer AMD Ryzen processors come with an AI Engine (also called NPU or IPU) that works in Windows 11 including the Ryzen 9 7940HS, Ryzen 7

www.cnx-software.com

Anything to crap on AMD about. How much is MTL's AI doing? How about how Intel claims that ARL will be the first "Gaming CPU with AI"? It's a bogus remark, yet you don't call them out.

AI on CPU's is useless at this point.

 

[Abwx]

Anything to crap on AMD about. How much is MTL's AI doing? How about how Intel claims that ARL will be the first "Gaming CPU with AI"? It's a bogus remark, yet you don't call them out.

AI on CPU's is useless at this point.

This article is obsolete, they have released an AI dedicated drivers for Linux yesterday, what a surprise that someone just published a review the same day but apparently not using the new driver or eventually botchering his own work for some reason.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1757168881259430308

 

[gdansk]

It's OK if it doesn't work since the AI is just there for Wall Street to fawn over.

For the best anyway... FPGA in client products scares me a bit.

It's not a FPGA. Xilinx used this in Versal AI too but no programmable gates here. It's a network of "fixed" VLIW cores. The network can be reconfigured but that's about it.

And it is meant to be used by Windows AI where it has already worked out-of-the-box since last year for mundane on-device features like smartphones.

Amazingly no one cared when AMD was just trying to keep up with Qualcomm, Apple, MediaTek. But as soon as Intel does it too people show up here saying AMD's developer experience sucks. Needing to make an account to get a proper driver for development does suck.

 

[tamz_msc]

This article is obsolete, they have released an AI dedicated drivers for Linux

The current state of Ryzen AI in Windows

 

[Thunder 57]

Was there a comment in there?

 

[Abwx]

Was there a comment in there?

Of course none since that s not his point wich is to crap as much as possible on AMD with whatever he manage to collect on the net, at the end that s his signature.

Here he collected a single isolated guy s article whose tests werent even reviewed by peers, but nevermind, the occasion was too good to not keeping up in his usual job,
wich is to provide no info but just some entertainment for the forum.

 

[Markfw]

Of course none since that s not his point wich is to crap as much as possible on AMD with whatever he manage to collect on the net, at the end that s his signature.

Here he collected a single isolated guy s article whose tests werent even reviewed by peers, but nevermind, the occasion was too good to not keeping up in his usual job,
wich is to provide no info but just some entertainment for the forum.

I reported him... Please do the same for that post.

 

[Abwx]

Review of a 8945H at Computerbase, although with DDR5600 but that seems enough to have good 780M iGPU perfs in respect of a 8700G or a MTL, although that doesnt matter much in this case since there s dGPU in the laptop :

Gaming mit Ryzen 8000: AMD Ryzen 9 8945HS im Spiele-Test

Auf Intel Meteor Lake folgt AMD Hawk Point: Der Ryzen 9 8945HS rückt die Hierarchie wieder gerade, aber Intel Core Ultra bleibt dran.

www.computerbase.de

 

[Gideon]

btw, the ITX mobo + soldered 16 core processor (HX-7945HX) combo I mentioned is now available at 519$:

AMD Ryzen 9 7945HX Mini-ITX motherboard is now available for $519, 16 Zen4 cores and full PCIe Gen5 support - VideoCardz.com

Ryzen 9 7945HX as Mobile on Desktop At last year’s Computex in June, Minisforum unveiled their plans for MoDT (Mobile on Desktop) platforms, featuring both Ryzen and Intel-based solutions for the Mini-ITX ecosystem. The company has already rolled out a product powered by the Core i9-13900HX...

videocardz.com

takes up to 100W when running MT workloads and is 1.6% slower in ST and 14% slower in MT than 7950X.

It obviously has its drawbacks, but if one plans to build a downclocked (eco-mode) mini-ITX PC anyway (say a CI/CD server or worker pool), it's a pretty good deal. You don't need a mobo and just need an extra 120mm fan for cooling:

The major drawback is the soldered CPU (and SO-DIMMs) but considering how much a 7950X + a decent ITX mobo + cooling costs ... just replacing this board with a successor could very-well cost about the same as a hypothetical CPU upgrade from a 7950X (if you account for all the costs over the lifetime).

 

[Thibsie]

That's twice you've mentioned SIMM's in the past few hours. I feel like I've been yanked back into the 90's .

Yah, those 8 bit SIMMs.... 😬

 

[nickmania]

Is any difference in DDR5 dual rank or single rank with this new AMD APUs, 8700g, at the same clock speed? I suppose that dual rank could have a bit of advantage due you need to access 2 memory parts, one for the GPU and the other to the CPU but I am not sure about this. Any benchmark?

 

[Shivansps]

Ill have the 8500G to test either today or tomorrow.

 

[Zepp]

Is any difference in DDR5 dual rank or single rank with this new AMD APUs, 8700g, at the same clock speed?

There has always been a small difference in previous gen APUs but I haven't found anyone testing this on DDR5 APU's yet. I'd assume it still makes a small difference but now you need 32GB dimms for dual rank on DDR5.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Ill have the 8500G to test either today or tomorrow.

Please try to test in two configurations: highest bandwidth and lowest latency.