Discussion Baldur's Gate 3

[Heartbreaker]

-I'm not putting people down for making a character that looks like them, but if you can give that character a horn and tail why not? It's a fantasy setting, lean into it.

Because I don't like horns or a tail, so why would I? To appease you? Again you seem to be putting down my choices...

 

[dainthomas]

I don't get putting down people that just want to have an avatar looks something like them, and doesn't want to spend hours in character creators. I'm in this camp. I look through a couple of presets, finds something close and spend maybe 5 minutes tweaking the hair. Done.

I'm not necessarily putting people down, it doesn't really affect me but I just find the phenomenon interesting. I look at me and people who look similar to me every day. If I'm playing a game to mentally escape to a fantastical realm of magic I just want to look different.

I almost went with a Dragonborn character, but that was a little too much for me.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Because I don't like horns or a tail, so why would I? To appease you? Again you seem to be putting down my choices...

- Alright I'll take the bait, not that my arguments are going to change any minds or alter any behaviors.

I guess I am putting down certain choices.

Very few games contain full featured character creators and those of us that do enjoy making unusual characters that we can role play as have a very limited selection to choose from. When the majority of players choose to make what is the equivalent of a stock character and developers see this, it makes it more difficult to justify putting resources to a character creator in the future which in turn limits my choices.

Traditional DnD based RPGs that really emphasize the "role playing" element have always been about playing the character, not yourself, making decisions and choices that the character would make in that world under those circumstances and really playing the role.

Simply being a self insert into this fantasy world does not feel true to the RP in the RPG, especially when the tools are there to radically depart in both personality and appearance from who you are.

 

[Heartbreaker]

I almost went with a Dragonborn character, but that was a little too much for me.

This is exactly the same as people like me, that you criticize, that want to play more human looking characters, except it's just that your line is in a different place.

When the majority of players choose to make what is the equivalent of a stock character and developers see this, it makes it more difficult to justify putting resources to a character creator in the future which in turn limits my choices.

So I should choose what I don't like, on the chance it will give you more future choices. Yeah, no thanks.

Traditional DnD based RPGs that really emphasize the "role playing" element have always been about playing the character, not yourself, making decisions and choices that the character would make in that world under those circumstances and really playing the role.
Simply being a self insert into this fantasy world does not feel true to the RP in the RPG, especially when the tools are there to radically depart in both personality and appearance from who you are.

RPG aren't about forcing people into roles they don't enjoy, neither today, nor traditionally. People generally choose roles they want to inhabit. I can enjoy inhabiting the Dwarf/Elf/Human roles, but have less than ZERO interest in the reptilian, horned, or tailed creatures.

 

[dainthomas]

This is exactly the same as people like me, that you criticize, that want to play more human looking characters, except it's just that your line is in a different place.

Dude I'm not criticizing you. I just said it was interesting.

Although as Godisanathiest says, if everyone plays as Brad the Systems Analyst developers may stop spending money creating these options. But there's nothing wrong with you doing whatever.

 

[Zeze]

I played a bit more. Learned a lot.

There is so much learning curve or just so much to take in that I have to take a break every 1 hour or so. I'm getting a better hang of it.

• Learned about how proficiencies work
• Spellcasting - Spell 'Slot' is basically mana. 'Preparation' is simply equipping it. I think these terms confused me more than they should have.
• Catnips are slot-free spells (or cantrip)
• For a good game your party generally needs these (thanks Fextralife YT)
  • Martial arts damage
  • Charisma / talking mastery
  • Utility mastery
  • Support damage
  • Direct magic damage

 

[RPD]

Just a depressing fact with a lot of these games that have really well developed character creators. 10% of people will go all in on the thing and spend hours crafting insane unique characters and the other 90% will go with the default WASP character and goooooo.

Dragon Age Inquisition and Origins had the same issue, where you could pick from all these races etc and the overwhelming majority of players went with human male.

Fuck that any RPG game I'm making a tank and there are god damn dwarfs in the game, I'm making a dwarf tank. Dwarf tank > almost any other race tank, fite me.

I'm very pragmatic when it comes to character creation depending on what I want to do. Stealth around and be a rogue, better believe I'm rolling a drow/dark elf etc.

 

[RPD]

I played a bit more. Learned a lot.

There is so much learning curve or just so much to take in that I have to take a break every 1 hour or so. I'm getting a better hang of it.

• Learned about how proficiencies work
• Spellcasting - Spell 'Slot' is basically mana. 'Preparation' is simply equipping it. I think these terms confused me more than they should have.
• Catnips are slot-free spells (or cantrip)
• For a good game your party generally needs these (thanks Fextralife YT)
  • Martial arts damage
  • Charisma / talking mastery
  • Utility mastery
  • Support damage
  • Direct magic damage

You picked a hell of a game to start learning this genre that is for sure. You'll either love it or be paralyzed by the amount of choices.

 

[sze5003]

Basically where I'm at too. I've read a bunch of articles on builds and watched some YouTube videos too. I'm planning on making my character this weekend and starting the game but I'm sure I won't know what I'm doing either.

I know when I played Divinity I didn't know what I was supposed to be doing. I explored a lot and got rid of some enemies but never made much progress in the game.

 

[Zeze]

You picked a hell of a game to start learning this genre that is for sure. You'll either love it or be paralyzed by the amount of choices.

And it's looking great so far.

I'm a 90's gamer so no-hand holding is fine by me. I managed to beat Elden Ring and while it's an action game, the stats/classes/spell mgmt/gears/debuff/buffs are pretty damn deep. I mean, look at all this in Elden Ring.

BG3 throws lot at you, but it tries to explain a lot too. And so far, the stats aren't deeper than Elden Ring. ER has another added complexity of weapon-specific scaling at across multiple attributes at different rates; each weapons all come with specific movesets for every light/heavy attack/jump attack/roll attack/etc and each weapon come with a special skill too and/or assign other skills to the weapon. We haven't even gotten to enchanting or buffing the weapons. Also it has tons of spells across all attributes.

So far... in terms of 'complexity and depth', it's not beating Elden Ring yet (all the weapons / armor / diff combo movesets / guarding / stance breaking / timed parry / all the ridiculous buffs/debuffs/ all the stats/attributes/etc). I'm excited to keep playing BG3.

td;lr - action rpgs got complex enough that CRPG isn't that much of a drastic change.

 

[BurnItDwn]

I frickin love this game.

Picked it up very late in early access because of hype and seeing how much some of my friends were playing it.
Since Release I've played a couple dozen more hours and have finally made it to Act 2 with one of my characters.

The "catnips" and spell slots confused me at first. It took my wife a while to understand it too. But, its really just a different way of handling cooldowns and mana pools. I mostly love how there is no stupid boring repetitive grind. Every fight is more or less curated.

My wife is a casual gamer, she loves high fantasy settings, but usually sticks to easier games. BG3 piqued her interest so i grabbed her her own copy so we could both play at the same time. She has played quite a bit and is getting into it too.

I love the character progression. Every time you level up, its meaningful. Most gear upgrades are meaningful. No killing the same crap over and over to get a +1% stats boost.

Also, the scale of Baldurs Gate 3 is just so fricking big its almost psychotic.

Act 1 alone is bigger/better than any other new game i've played in years.

 

[RPD]

And it's looking great so far.

I'm a 90's gamer so no-hand holding is fine by me. I managed to beat Elden Ring and while it's an action game, the stats/classes/spell mgmt/gears/debuff/buffs are pretty damn deep. I mean, look at all this in Elden Ring.

BG3 throws lot at you, but it tries to explain a lot too. And so far, the stats aren't deeper than Elden Ring. ER has another added complexity of weapon-specific scaling at across multiple attributes at different rates; each weapons all come with specific movesets for every light/heavy attack/jump attack/roll attack/etc and each weapon come with a special skill too and/or assign other skills to the weapon. We haven't even gotten to enchanting or buffing the weapons. Also it has tons of spells across all attributes.

So far... in terms of 'complexity and depth', it's not beating Elden Ring yet (all the weapons / armor / diff combo movesets / guarding / stance breaking / timed parry / all the ridiculous buffs/debuffs/ all the stats/attributes/etc). I'm excited to keep playing BG3.

td;lr - action rpgs got complex enough that CRPG isn't that much of a drastic change.

Well glad you are enjoying it, there is a lot of games in this genre if you want to go back years, obviously the OG BG's, if you can stomach the graphics Icewind Dales and the newer Neverwinter Nights. I couldn't get into Elden Ring, I was under the impression it wasn't another DS type game, but maybe if I clear out my current backlog I can give it another go.

 

[Heartbreaker]

td;lr - action rpgs got complex enough that CRPG isn't that much of a drastic change.

Also D&D gets more simplified and streamlined with each edition. I started playing with AD&D pen and paper back in the early 1980's (after a brief intro with Basic/Expert). That system has little internal consistency or logic.

The original Baldurs gate and BG2 are based on 2nd edition. Having played in it since I was a kid, I have no problem with it, but I bet it seems baffling to anyone new at this point. I still have 1st and 2nd edition books.

D&D 3E was a similar system but rationally streamlined so it was more consistent and internally logical. As an Old school 1st edition fan, I still like 3e and 3.5e.

4e I skipped, but it was said to be very much like a videogame system.

5e I find to be the most simplified system almost to the point that it's almost a little too homogenous on the rules side. Building characters in the past systems there were many tradeoffs, but in 5e. You just need to focus on your main stat and it pretty much does the same thing.

Bottom line, the CRPG system of BG3 is MUCH more simplified than BG1 and BG2.

 

[WelshBloke]

I've just started playing the release and I'm happy thelat they have changed it enough from early access that I'm not burned out on the first act.
This was my main issue with replaying earlier BG games, total burnout on the lengthy intro dungeon.

Also I'm not sold on having to pick a penis for my Dragon born ranger! I get that character generation is a big thing in D&D but three choices of penis wasn't something that I was expecting! 😆

 

[RPD]

I've just started playing the release and I'm happy thelat they have changed it enough from early access that I'm not burned out on the first act.
This was my main issue with replaying earlier BG games, total burnout on the lengthy intro dungeon.

Also I'm not sold on having to pick a penis for my Dragon born ranger! I get that character generation is a big thing in D&D but three choices of penis wasn't something that I was expecting! 😆

Sooooo don't leave us hanging...

 

[Heartbreaker]

BG Player stats from Larian:

Baldur's Gate 3 - Community Update #23: Here's To You - Steam News

Hello, everyone! During the launch weekend, you played a combined 1225 years of Baldur’s Gate 3 – almost as long as it took to make it. And 368 of you managed to finish it within that 3-day weekend. We salute you. We’re about to enter the second weekend of launch, and thanks to you, it’s looking...

store.steampowered.com

93% rolled custom character (Includes Dark Urge Origin)
Of those that chose an Origin Character: #1 Gale, #2 Karlach, #3 Astarion

Classes Chosen #1 Paladin, #2 Sorcerer, #3 Warlock - Then a Wide middle, then Cleric last well below 2nd last.

 

[sze5003]

Damn I can't even get off the ship. Every attack on that commander Zhalk is a miss even with Eldridge blast. I've reloaded so many times hoping to beat him so I can get the weapon. I think I managed to get him once but then died shortly after we were all surrounded.

 

[Zeze]

Damn I can't even get off the ship. Every attack on that commander Zhalk is a miss even with Eldridge blast. I've reloaded so many times hoping to beat him so I can get the weapon. I think I managed to get him once but then died shortly after we were all surrounded.

You're supposed to ignore him and get off the ship.

Once you're good in the next playthrough, it should be easier to kill (he drops a weapon).

You have to stack debuffs on him (advantage, and disadvantage, etc). And keep that stranger ally healed so he keeps tanking for you.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Haha good for us & the BG3 team
I believe the last comment is from a developer

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Haha good for us & the BG3 team
I believe the last comment is from a developer

View attachment 84336

-"Wait, y'all are getting paid?!"

 

[Dannar26]

I know tone is hard to interpret on the interwebs, so please know that my responses are not mouth-frothy attacks to besmirch your honor.

-I'm not putting people down for making a character that looks like them, but if you can give that character a horn and tail why not? It's a fantasy setting, lean into it.

At the end of the day people are going to do whatever, but it does mean less games with huge amounts of character customization for those who do like it.

With regard to DA:Origins I did the same. I agree that the Human Noble origin was actually a really great origin and added layers to the main campaign. Honestly City Elf, and both Dwarf origins (especially the low born one) were fantastic as well. The clan elf and mage intros were the weakest of the bunch, but even they were at least good.

In many fantasy settings, humans are the majority population. This is true of Forgotten Realms, and most D&D campaign settings. I think there's something to be said for being a normal human in a world where you need to defend yourself against fantastic/alien threats. There's a certain romance to it, I think. Many of us grew up watching some variation of "human guy gets the magic sword and beats the big bad."

...that being said I love diversity of choice. Even if I make a human paladin as my main/first playthrough, I'd love to do something crazy for the next run. It keeps things fresh for subsequent playthroughs. I wouldn't be shocked if that's what we're seeing, to be honest. I wonder if they were to re-run the numbers a year or two down the line, what the stats would look like?

I loved DA:Origins! I agree that the Human Noble was a fantastic back story. They were all good, but as you point out, some were just above and beyond. I really liked both Dwarf stories myself.

Dude I'm not criticizing you. I just said it was interesting.

Although as Godisanathiest says, if everyone plays as Brad the Systems Analyst developers may stop spending money creating these options. But there's nothing wrong with you doing whatever.

If the devs are really upset about how their players are making characters, then I think they need a reality check. It would strike me as petty to leave out customization just because the majority don't utilize it. It just makes the game weaker.

Also, for what it's worth, I found the character customization underwhelming. Rather than picking genitalia, I would have loved sliders to further customize how my character looks. When I made my (gasp) human dude, there were only 6 faces and two body types to choose from. I'd love to choose a build that is somewhere between adolescent boy and brick shit house.

I mean, I guess there's a plethora of options if I wanted teal eyes, pink hair, and a nose ring...but I'd rather just be able to make a face that wasn't stamped out at a factory, along with a body where I can choose the size and fitness level.

Fuck that any RPG game I'm making a tank and there are god damn dwarfs in the game, I'm making a dwarf tank. Dwarf tank > almost any other race tank, fite me.

I'm very pragmatic when it comes to character creation depending on what I want to do. Stealth around and be a rogue, better believe I'm rolling a drow/dark elf etc.

FOR ROCK AND STONE YOU BEAUTIFUL DWARF!!!

(dwarven defender FTW)

 

[Dannar26]

Haha good for us & the BG3 team
I believe the last comment is from a developer

View attachment 84336

I've heard that there were tears about this. Fscking boo-hoo. It's about time gamers get off the "indefinite early-access is ok" and "microtransactions are acceptable in a game that's pay-to-play" trains.

I have sympathy for small indy companies. I don't have sympathy for the likes of Blizzard, EA, Ubisoft, Bethesda, etc.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Haha good for us & the BG3 team
I believe the last comment is from a developer

View attachment 84336

He's the director of publishing at Larian. So someone who would know.

I think much of the cash flow may have come from early access funding. Speculation is that they sold up to 5 million Early Access copies... That's a lot of expansion funding.

 

[Heartbreaker]

I loved DA:Origins! I agree that the Human Noble was a fantastic back story. They were all good, but as you point out, some were just above and beyond. I really liked both Dwarf stories myself.

IMO, playing all the DA:O intros, was the best intro to any computer RPG ever. Getting to see the society from all races, and multiple different economic strata(Dwarf Noble vs Dwarf Commoner) was amazing.

Amazing contrast vs DA2 where EA bean counters took over.

 

[sze5003]

You're supposed to ignore him and get off the ship.

Once you're good in the next playthrough, it should be easier to kill (he drops a weapon).

You have to stack debuffs on him (advantage, and disadvantage, etc). And keep that stranger ally healed so he keeps tanking for you.

I managed to get his sword and gave it to La Zael. I equiped shadowblade with the command spell and used it on the demon boss to make him drop his sword. While it took a bunch of reloads because the Cambions kept killing us all, the trick was to keep the mind flayed guy healed so he could keep doing good damage.

I got enough XP killing the rest of the enemies in the room. Now I’m on the beach and I’ve found 3 companions but still need to find La Zael because she has that cool sword.

So far I’m enjoying this more than divinity original sin for sure. I just need to remember to keep quick saving frequently.