Discussion Future ARM Cortex + Neoverse µArchs Discussion

[Nothingness]

Gen 3 had all power savings turned off and it ran full throttle. They used ASUS gaming phone so obviously the results are going to look like this. By default only something like OnePlus devices seem to give these really low numbers.

So basically there are two wrongs in their comparison: wrong peak power for Gen 2 and wrong GB score for Gen 2. Nice.

 

[FlameTail]

Bombshell news just dropped.

Surprise! Google Chrome goes native for Windows on Arm

Google has started testing an ARM64 version of Chrome that will dramatically improve performance on Arm-based Windows devices.

www.theverge.com

Windows On ARM fans rejoice!

 

[DrMrLordX]

Windows On ARM fans rejoice!

Eww, Chrome. Also Edge is Chromium-based now, and doesn't WARM already ship with a native port of Edge?

 

[Tup3x]

Eww, Chrome. Also Edge is Chromium-based now, and doesn't WARM already ship with a native port of Edge?

Well, yes. But it would be great if Google releases native versions of their apps (like Google drive) on Windows ARM. Besides, it's good to have choices.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Eww, Chrome.

You use Edge? It's not as smooth as Chrome on my i7-4770 work PC. Likes to pause. Dunno what it does which causes pauses on a frickin' SSD. But I use mainly Firefox and while not as smooth as Chrome, it has better features (tab size stays constant instead of getting smaller and smaller as more tabs open until it's just a bunch of X's in Chrome, you can select all Firefox tabs and save them as bookmarks, saving a whole web page as a screenshot etc).

 

[FlameTail]

Also YouTube is slower on Edge than Chrome

 

[DrMrLordX]

You use Edge?

I use Firefox Portable.

 

[Tup3x]

Also YouTube is slower on Edge than Chrome

Haven't noticed anything - it's just as fast if not even faster. Firefox users did whine about that though.

 

[gdansk]

Firefox + full uBlock Origin > any Chromium derivative that switches to Manifest v3.
You should be using an alternate interface for YouTube either way, or they'll be forcing all sorts of trash into your 'feed' as if you're a pig.

And, if it was about speed (it wasn't), Chromium has had regular builds for Windows on ARM for 4 years now. https://community.arm.com/arm-commu...g/posts/native-chromium-builds-windows-on-arm

 

[eek2121]

You use Edge? It's not as smooth as Chrome on my i7-4770 work PC. Likes to pause. Dunno what it does which causes pauses on a frickin' SSD. But I use mainly Firefox and while not as smooth as Chrome, it has better features (tab size stays constant instead of getting smaller and smaller as more tabs open until it's just a bunch of X's in Chrome, you can select all Firefox tabs and save them as bookmarks, saving a whole web page as a screenshot etc).

I switched to Firefox since adblocking is going away in Chrome.

The hilarious thing is that Firefox with ublock origin will likely end up outperforming chrome thanks to chrome now having to grab all those trackers and ads.

 

[Tup3x]

Firefox + full uBlock Origin > any Chromium derivative that switches to Manifest v3.
You should be using an alternate interface for YouTube either way, or they'll be forcing all sorts of trash into your 'feed' as if you're a pig.

And, if it was about speed (it wasn't), Chromium has had regular builds for Windows on ARM for 4 years now. https://community.arm.com/arm-commu...g/posts/native-chromium-builds-windows-on-arm

Google's Widevine DRM has been the problem. If Google will officially support Windows ARM64, then it's very likely that is not going to be an issue soon.

 

[FlameTail]

I am infuriated to see this argument getting thrown around. People seem to be under the impression that only "Cortex A5xx series = Efficency core". Doesn't help that tech sites like Wttfech keep spreading such misinformation.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I am infuriated to see this argument getting thrown around.

Why? It's not really anything to get upset about.

"efficiency core" generally means slow and low-power. If people are buzzing about Snapdragon 8 Gen 4 not having any "efficiency cores" on it, that means they take it more-seriously from a performance perspective. Which maybe they should.

 

[FlameTail]

Why? It's not really anything to get upset about.

"efficiency core" generally means slow and low-power. If people are buzzing about Snapdragon 8 Gen 4 not having any "efficiency cores" on it, that means they take it more-seriously from a performance perspective. Which maybe they should.

By that logic, Apple CPUs also don't have any efficiency cores, since the E-core is as powerful as the Cortex A7xx.

 

[hemedans]

By that logic, Apple CPUs also don't have any efficiency cores, since the E-core is as powerful as the Cortex A7xx.

But it use less power than even A520,

most people who praise these soc never use phone doing anything serious, these powerfull soc get hot, really hot to the point it's not even comfortable touching your phone. You cant cool 17W in a phone, and when you throttle it became less powerfull than midrange soc.

We need core like Apple one in Android, something which consume just 0.5W and give same performance as A720, Apple can compete with Android flagship in battery life while it have just 3000-4000mah batteries and they give more performance with non existence cooling solution.

Put Bionic with 5000-6000mah batteries and vapour chamber like those Android flagship it's going to give you best battery life, sustain performance and improve user experience.

So I hope Oryon cores will prioritize having efficiency cores more and just having one or two cores for burst speed.

 

[DrMrLordX]

By that logic, Apple CPUs also don't have any efficiency cores, since the E-core is as powerful as the Cortex A7xx.

Maybe they don't.

 

[ikjadoon]

I think people are missing the relativeness.

The E-core is slower & smaller than its paired P-core.

I somehow feel dumber for questioning this.

 

[soresu]

Bombshell news just dropped.

Surprise! Google Chrome goes native for Windows on Arm

Google has started testing an ARM64 version of Chrome that will dramatically improve performance on Arm-based Windows devices.

www.theverge.com

Windows On ARM fans rejoice!

Oh wow, I thought they got round to that ages ago.

It just goes to show, even with a well polished ARM based port already in existence on another platform it isn't trivial to make a WoA port.

 

[soresu]

Apple can compete with Android flagship in battery life while it have just 3000-4000mah batteries and they give more performance with non existence cooling solution

#1. Last I checked iPhone's metal case is a monolithic chunk of aluminium.

That's not non existent cooling power.

#2. Apple's entire stack is better - not just their SoC.

Android is not built on an efficient foundation sadly, so even with the exact same hardware Android users would still be at a disadvantage.

I was hoping that Fuchsia would remedy this with a sort of Windows NT like shake up of the internal structure of Android while retaining the same branding and software compatibility - but it seems like that already shaky outcome is becoming less and less likely as time goes by.

 

[Doug S]

#1. Last I checked iPhone's metal case is a monolithic chunk of aluminium.

That's not non existent cooling power.

Starting with the 15 Pro / Pro Max the case is titanium. I think some of the internal frame may still be aluminum, but if so that may change with future models.

 

[FlameTail]

Cortex X4 flexes it's muscle in Geekbench

https://x.com/Golden_Reviewer/status/1752750001200263245?s=20

.

 

[FlameTail]

The rise of Arm in computing: More than just mobile?

The landscape of Arm-based computing unfolds, promising continued innovation and a transformative future.

www.xda-developers.com

• Arm architecture's adaptability and scalability make it an attractive alternative to traditional x86 architecture in personal computing, offering energy efficiency and increased performance-per-watt. Challenges like software compatibility and legacy support have slowed widespread adoption.
• The modular design of Arm architecture allows manufacturers to create a range of devices, from energy-efficient laptops to high-performance servers. The advantages of Arm, including scalability and efficiency, are influencing the design and development of personal computing devices.
• Apple's transition to Arm architecture with its M1 chips has set a new standard in the computing industry, delivering impressive performance gains and improved battery life. The success of Apple Silicon has prompted other manufacturers to explore Arm-based solutions, potentially reshaping the competitive landscape. Nvidia's attempted acquisition of Arm and Qualcomm's agreement with Microsoft ending in 2024 further indicate the rising trend of Arm in computing.

Shortcomings in both software compatibility and hardware availability have hampered the proliferation of ARM in PCs.

 

[eek2121]

Cortex X4 flexes it's muscle in Geekbench

View attachment 92887

https://x.com/Golden_Reviewer/status/1752750001200263245?s=20

.

Still trailing 1 year old Apple devices in SC performance, however it is good to see that Android is finally getting a performant SoC. It is mind boggling to me that it has taken this long to get there.

EDIT:

iPhone 15 Pro Max for comparison: https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/4757018

My 14 Pro Max scored 2647/7044 for comparison.

 

[soresu]

Still trailing 1 year old Apple devices in SC performance, however it is good to see that Android is finally getting a performant SoC. It is mind boggling to me that it has taken this long to get there.

EDIT:

iPhone 15 Pro Max for comparison: https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/4757018

My 14 Pro Max scored 2647/7044 for comparison.

IMHO it's all relative.

There's nothing you really need that performance for really on an Android device these days, as game devs/studios stopped even pretending to try and port recent console and PC games to the platform years ago, having written off its security problems in preventing side loading piracy (really Google's fault there, and no others).

AFAIK they still haven't even got round to porting GTA4 to Android, let alone GTA5 which is already pushing 11 years old.

WoA on the other hand is another matter - I'm sure binary translation for x86 Windows legacy apps and games will take all the IPC you can muster for anything newer than 5-10 years old.

 

[SarahKerrigan]

By that logic, Apple CPUs also don't have any efficiency cores, since the E-core is as powerful as the Cortex A7xx.

The secret is, there are no "performance cores" or "efficiency cores" - there's just cores, which come in different types, sizes, specializations, and parameterizations.

Whoaaaaaa.