Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.



Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Model	Code-Name	Date	TDP	Node	Tiles	Main Tile	CPU	LP E-Core	LLC	GPU	Xe-cores
Core Ultra 100U	Meteor Lake	Q4 2023	15 - 57 W	Intel 4 + N5 + N6	4	tCPU	2P + 8E	2	12 MB	Intel Graphics	4
?	Lunar Lake	Q4 2024	17 - 30 W	N3B + N6	2	CPU + GPU & IMC	4P + 4E	0	8 MB	Arc	8
?	Panther Lake	Q1 2026 ?	?	Intel 18A + N3E	3	CPU + MC	4P + 8E	4	?	Arc	12

Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

	Meteor Lake	Arrow Lake (20A)	Arrow Lake (N3B)	Arrow Lake Refresh (N3B)	Lunar Lake	Panther Lake
Platform	Mobile H/U Only	Desktop Only	Desktop & Mobile H&HX	Desktop Only	Mobile U Only	Mobile H
Process Node	Intel 4	Intel 20A	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	Intel 18A
Date	Q4 2023	Q1 2025 ?	Desktop-Q4-2024 H&HX-Q1-2025	Q4 2025 ?	Q4 2024	Q1 2026 ?
Full Die	6P + 8P	6P + 8E ?	8P + 16E	8P + 32E	4P + 4E	4P + 8E
LLC	24 MB	24 MB ?	36 MB ?	?	8 MB	?
tCPU	66.48
tGPU	44.45
SoC	96.77
IOE	44.45
Total	252.15

Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake



As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)

 

[tamz_msc]

People are too stuck up on how LP E-cores work on MTL to think that just because the Skymont cores in Lunar Lake are a different cluster with their own SLC, they are functionally similar to those of MTL.

It is obvious that they are still utilized whenever needed, even if the heavy-lifting is being done by the P-cores.

 

[DavidC1]

People are too stuck up on how LP E-cores work on MTL to think that just because the Skymont cores in Lunar Lake are a different cluster with their own SLC, they are functionally similar to those of MTL.

Perhaps rather than using a harsh tone and making a judgment on people, you might want to take a second look at the official Intel leak that says the E cores are for low priority applications.

 

[tamz_msc]

Perhaps rather than using a harsh tone and making a judgment on people, you might want to take a second look at the official Intel leak that says the E cores are for low priority applications.

That does not mean that when running something like Cinebench MT, those cores are sitting idle.

 

[SiliconFly]

ARL is Core Ultra 2xx after all...

Intel Arrow Lake reportedly confirmed to launch as Core Ultra 200 series, Raptor Lake-H Refresh coming as Core 200H - VideoCardz.com

Intel Core 200 series confirmed to host Arrow Lake and Raptor Lake CPUs The new series naming has been confirmed, claims a reputable leaker. As expected, Intel is set to release its upcoming client series known as Arrow Lake, which will be a part of the Core Ultra 200 series. This possibility...

videocardz.com

And it also says, ARL will have 2 LPE cores in the I/O die.

Worst part is, RPL-H refresh is getting refreshed again! Thats just sad!

 

[Hulk]

I'm so confused about Arrow Lake. Can someone answer the following questions with the best available info/evidence?

Will Arrow Lake be desktop only or desktop and mobile?

What is known about core counts/configurations?

What node(s) will it be using?

Will the P cores have hyperthreading?

I realize we don't have hard information at this point. I'm just curious as to what the best evidence supports regarding these questions.

 

[Ghostsonplanets]

And it also says, ARL will have 2 LPE cores in the I/O die.

IO die? I guess this is a workaround to the fact it's reusing MTL SoC Tile and thus it would have to reuse Crestmont as the LPE core.

I'm so confused about Arrow Lake. Can someone answer the following questions with the best available info/evidence?

Will Arrow Lake be desktop only or desktop and mobile?

What is known about core counts/configurations?

What node(s) will it be using?

Will the P cores have hyperthreading?

I realize we don't have hard information at this point. I'm just curious as to what the best evidence supports regarding these questions.

1 - Both. Mobile Intel next year will be composed on RPL U/H, MTL U, ARL U/H and LNL MX.

2 - Mobile up to 6P/8E. Desktop up to 8P/16E

3 - Intel 20A for some mobile dies. N3B for Desktop and Mobile (Including LNL)

4 - No. HT is done for the foreseeable future. Speculation now says Intel will replace it with Rental Units or whatever it comes from the fabled Royal Core/Exciting new Core project.

 

[SiliconFly]

0IO die? I guess this is a workaround to the fact it's reusing MTL SoC Tile and thus it would have to reuse Crestmont as the LPE core.

1 - Both. Mobile Intel next year will be composed on RPL U/H, MTL U, ARL U/H and LNL MX.

2 - Mobile up to 6P/8E. Desktop up to 8P/16E

3 - Intel 20A for some mobile dies. N3B for Desktop and Mobile (Including LNL)

4 - No. HT is done for the foreseeable future. Speculation now says Intel will replace it with Rental Units or whatever it comes from the fabled Royal Core/Exciting new Core project.

Also, I think there is a Arrow Lake H or HX mobile 8P/16E cpu (based on N3B).

That would make, ARL-H on 20A. ARL-HX & LNL-MX on N3B.

 

[DavidC1]

The latest report from Bionic_Squash and others say Arrowlake 20A is only on 6+8 Desktop, and the rest are N3.

Other reports said Arrowlake does not have the useless LPE core. I think Videocard report is just speculation.

4 - No. HT is done for the foreseeable future. Speculation now says Intel will replace it with Rental Units or whatever it comes from the fabled Royal Core/Exciting new Core project.

Up next is likely the uop cache once they give up fanatical focus on clocks.

 

[tamz_msc]

The +2 in the config refers to the number of GT cores, not LP E cores.

 

[Hulk]

What's up with this? I assume this test was completed running Windows? Will this CPU actually be more performant and efficient than Inte/AMD offerings when we see it in laptops?

Snapdragon X Elite beats AMD and Intel flagship mobile CPUs in Geekbench 6 – Qualcomm's new laptop chip leads in single- and multi-core tests

ARM closes the gap with x86.

www.tomshardware.com

 

[Hitman928]

What's up with this? I assume this test was completed running Windows? Will this CPU actually be more performant and efficient than Inte/AMD offerings when we see it in laptops?

Snapdragon X Elite beats AMD and Intel flagship mobile CPUs in Geekbench 6 – Qualcomm's new laptop chip leads in single- and multi-core tests

ARM closes the gap with x86.

www.tomshardware.com

SPD-X will be mostly competing against Zen 5 and ARL. With that in mind, if we are to believe the rumors and consider this SPD-X score as final, then Zen 5 will have a significant performance lead and ARL a slight performance lead. Efficiency I won't comment on since we don't have actual power numbers yet for any of them.

Edit: The reference laptop they used as a demo machine had much better scores. Not sure what makes the "in the wild" scores so much lower but probably comes down to immature firmware.

 

[moinmoin]

Will this CPU actually be more performant and efficient than Inte/AMD offerings when we see it in laptops?

Performant in GB6's "MT" (which is really a limited cores test, rather than a reflection of multi core capability) anyway. No info about efficiency in that one.

 

[dullard]

What's up with this? I assume this test was completed running Windows? Will this CPU actually be more performant and efficient than Inte/AMD offerings when we see it in laptops?

Snapdragon X Elite beats AMD and Intel flagship mobile CPUs in Geekbench 6 – Qualcomm's new laptop chip leads in single- and multi-core tests

ARM closes the gap with x86.

www.tomshardware.com

That type of CPU is exactly why I've been saying that we shouldn't have AMD vs Intel fights. The real battle is ARM vs x86. AMD and Intel are on the same x86 team. Any infighting between them deflects attention from the real upcoming war against ARM.

 

[moinmoin]

That type of CPU is exactly why I've been saying that we shouldn't have AMD vs Intel fights. The real battle is ARM vs x86. AMD and Intel are on the same x86 team. Any infighting between them deflects attention from the real upcoming war against ARM.

Right, Intel and the x86 ecosystem as a whole are lucky to have AMD. Otherwise ARM would be seen as a clear winner for quite some time already. AMD's comeback took the wind out of a lot of ARM sails over the years (be it ARM servers, be it Apple Silicon, etc.). It's actually quite telling that plenty comparisons over the years were about ARM chips compared with Intel chips.

 

[Henry swagger]

Right, Intel and the x86 ecosystem as a whole are lucky to have AMD. Otherwise ARM would be seen as a clear winner for quite some time already. AMD's comeback took the wind out of a lot of ARM sails over the years (be it ARM servers, be it Apple Silicon, etc.). It's actually quite telling that plenty comparisons over the years were about ARM chips compared with Intel chips.

Lol

 

[Hulk]

How is this ARM cpu able to compete with native x86 designs? It must be using some type of emulation, which is normally a performance killer?

 

[tamz_msc]

How is this ARM cpu able to compete with native x86 designs? It must be using some type of emulation, which is normally a performance killer?

?
Geekbench has arm binaries with native support on Windows.

 

[gdansk]

How is this ARM cpu able to compete with native x86 designs? It must be using some type of emulation, which is normally a performance killer?

Microsoft has included an x86 and x64 emulator in ARM builds of Windows for sometime now.
Ex-microsoft employee Darek Mihochka, who lead development of this feature, goes over a history here of their emulation here: http://www.emulators.com/docs/abc_history_of_woa.htm
(he's now at Nvidia which @FlameTail may find interesting)

 

[igor_kavinski]

How is this ARM cpu able to compete with native x86 designs?

Woefully behind in some areas: http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=threads/qualcomm-snapdragon-thread.2616013/post-41184685

 

[trivik12]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1776005067117592756

1st Lunar Lake mode ntel(R) Core(TM) Ultra 5 234V 2.10GHz

 

[igor_kavinski]

Oh, the "V" series. The jokes will never end...

 

[Schmide]

How is this ARM cpu able to compete with native x86 designs? It must be using some type of emulation, which is normally a performance killer?

Comes to mind. Arm has some cool instructions, ironically kind of complex, like VLD that permute RGB elements better than x86.

 

[S'renne]

Is there no more leaks on Arrow Lake?

 

[uzzi38]

Is there no more leaks on Arrow Lake?

Not a whole lot left to leak, is there?

 

[Hulk]

Not a whole lot left to leak, is there?

How about a nice solid, reliable, CB R23 score with the clock speed and power draw during the run? Those three numbers would tell us about 95% of what we need to know.