Discussion Speculation: Zen 4 (EPYC 4 "Genoa", Ryzen 7000, etc.)

[Vattila]

Except for the details about the improvements in the microarchitecture, we now know pretty well what to expect with Zen 3.

The leaked presentation by AMD Senior Manager Martin Hilgeman shows that EPYC 3 "Milan" will, as promised and expected, reuse the current platform (SP3), and the system architecture and packaging looks to be the same, with the same 9-die chiplet design and the same maximum core and thread-count (no SMT-4, contrary to rumour). The biggest change revealed so far is the enlargement of the compute complex from 4 cores to 8 cores, all sharing a larger L3 cache ("32+ MB", likely to double to 64 MB, I think).

Hilgeman's slides did also show that EPYC 4 "Genoa" is in the definition phase (or was at the time of the presentation in September, at least), and will come with a new platform (SP5), with new memory support (likely DDR5).

What else do you think we will see with Zen 4? PCI-Express 5 support? Increased core-count? 4-way SMT? New packaging (interposer, 2.5D, 3D)? Integrated memory on package (HBM)?

Vote in the poll and share your thoughts!

 

[Markfw]

Oh, and if you want to talk efficiency, 2 9554s' can score 166k at 640 watts vs the 7995x @165k @ 980 watts, or the Intel 3495@1900 watts@132k.

I just added 2 9554's together for that, so its possible it would be a little different.

But I think its obvious, Genoa blows the best Intel out of the contest in both efficiency and pure speed.

 

[Hitman928]

Using water cooling he was able to push scores a bit higher:

AMD's Threadripper Pro 7995WX Breaks World Records and 1,000W Using Liquid Cooling

Smashing Cinebench and GPUPI for CPU records.

www.tomshardware.com

 

[igor_kavinski]

AMD's Threadripper Pro 7995WX Breaks World Records and 1,000W Using Liquid Cooling

Smashing Cinebench and GPUPI for CPU records.

www.tomshardware.com

128 GB of DDR5-3200 CL32

Had to do a double take.

First I was like, 7995WX supports DDR4????

And then, utter dismay. DDR5 sucks swollen smelly balls.

 

[SteinFG]

Had to do a double take.

First I was like, 7995WX supports DDR4????

And then, utter dismay. DDR5 sucks swollen smelly balls.

I don't think cinebench cares about ram at all, so the speed of ram is irrelevant here.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I don't think cinebench cares about ram at all, so the speed of ram is irrelevant here.

Which says more about CB being a useless real world benchmark.

 

[Markfw]

Which says more about CB being a useless real world benchmark.

I think its an indicator of CPU power + cpu speed. the world does not exist for ram.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I think its an indicator of CPU power + cpu speed.

Yeah, theoretical compute power. Best case scenario for CPUs with huge cache or for workloads with small data sets. I've been looking at 7373X Phoronix benchmarks. It beats 7950X in some benchmarks by as much as 50 percent.

 

[StefanR5R]

128 GB of DDR5-3200 CL32

Had to do a double take.

First I was like, 7995WX supports DDR4????

And then, utter dismay. DDR5 sucks swollen smelly balls.

The article says "Sampson used and Asus Pro WS TRX50-Safe WiFi motherboard and 128 GB of DDR5-3200 CL32 memory (using four G.Skill DDR5-6400 CL32 modules)" [sic]. I am not sure what this is supposed to mean. Apparently, G.Skill is currently offering only 16 GB sticks in DDR5 registered ECC format, whereas the Asus Pro WS TRX50-SAGE Wifi has got only four DIMM slots, aligned with AMD's TR5 socket TRX50 platform restrictions. Either they had access to higher capacity sticks which G.Skill aren't officially listing, or they took an 8-stick 128 GB kit and put only half of that onto the TRX50 board. But more importantly, what they might mean WRT DRAM clocks is that they took those 6400 CL32 sticks and might have clocked them to 3200 CL32.

AMD specifies the sIOD in Genoa/ Bergamo/ Siena/ TR 7000 to support up to 4800 MT/s in the server CPUs and up to 5200 MT/s in the Threadrippers.

Standard fare for DDR5 registered ECC RAM is 4800 CL40. Kingston has got 5600 CL36 and 6000 CL32 too.

But as was mentioned, the amount and type of RAM is irrelevant to Cinebench R15…R23. They posted a CB 2024 result too (for the watercooled system only), into which RAM performance might figure in somewhat.

 

[Abwx]

But as was mentioned, the amount and type of RAM is irrelevant to Cinebench R15…R23. They posted a CB 2024 result too (for the watercooled system only), into which RAM performance might figure in somewhat.

In all cases including CB 2024 scaling is poor at 73% or so, the 64C/128T would provide only10-15% lower scores, at least in CB, it could be otherwise with say V-Ray.

Also 50% more cores at same a TDP wont increase perfs by more than 20%, to stretch its leg s a 96C SKU would require 30-35% higher TDP than a 64C, at this proportion it could perform 50% better with the right softwares.

 

[igor_kavinski]

TR 7000 review round up: https://videocardz.com/167541/amd-ryzen-threadripper-7000x-pro-7000wx-review-roundup

 

[StefanR5R]

The article says "Sampson used and Asus Pro WS TRX50-Safe WiFi motherboard and 128 GB of DDR5-3200 CL32 memory (using four G.Skill DDR5-6400 CL32 modules)" [sic]. I am not sure what this is supposed to mean. Apparently, G.Skill is currently offering only 16 GB sticks in DDR5 registered ECC format, whereas the Asus Pro WS TRX50-SAGE Wifi has got only four DIMM slots, aligned with AMD's TR5 socket TRX50 platform restrictions. Either they had access to higher capacity sticks which G.Skill aren't officially listing, or they took an 8-stick 128 GB kit and put only half of that onto the TRX50 board. But more importantly, what they might mean WRT DRAM clocks is that they took those 6400 CL32 sticks and might have clocked them to 3200 CL32.

Addendum:
– G.Skill did at least announce that they shall offer 32 GB modules too. (press release from February)
– As the Threadripper 7000 reviews are mentioning, G.Skill now added the Zeta R5 neo series which features AMD EXPO instead of Intel XMP. Threadripper reviewers apparently received 32 GB modules of this series.

 

[nicalandia]

TR 7000 review round up: https://videocardz.com/167541/amd-ryzen-threadripper-7000x-pro-7000wx-review-roundup

ThreadRipper just broke the 200,000 points with LN2

 

[nicalandia]

ThreadRipper just broke the 200,000 points with LN2

View attachment 89135

Scratch that... Mr Safedist did a run at 6.2 Ghz All Core on LN2 and got more than 210,000 points...

safedisk`s Cinebench - R23 Multi Core with BenchMate score: 210702 cb with a Ryzen Threadripper PRO 7995WX

The Ryzen Threadripper PRO 7995WX @ 6250MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the Cinebench - R23 Multi Core with BenchMate benchmark. safediskranks #1 worldwide and #1 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.

hwbot.org

 

[nicalandia]

150-Watt 64-Core CPU - AMD Epyc Siena 8534P Review

Impressive performance and efficiency

 

[iamgenius]

World Record on Air... 4.8 Ghz all Core Boost.

AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 7995WX 96 Core CPU Rips Through Cinebench With Record-Breaking Performance, On An Air Cooler!

AMD has just released record-breaking performance numbers for its upcoming 96-Core flagship CPU, the Ryzen Threadripper PRO 7995WX.

www.google.com

Is this ICEGIANT ProSiphone Elite air cooler better than the Noctuas?

Using water cooling he was able to push scores a bit higher:

AMD's Threadripper Pro 7995WX Breaks World Records and 1,000W Using Liquid Cooling

Smashing Cinebench and GPUPI for CPU records.

www.tomshardware.com

If the cpu itself draw 1000 watts or maybe more with LN, how do you supply power to the whole system? More than one PSU?

 

[StefanR5R]

At some point, there were 1,600 W flowing in this LN2 demo, not counting spikes. Two power supplies were used. Source: der8auer "Vergiss Intel! Diese CPU übertrifft einfach ALLES" video, from 16:00 on (German audio)

 

[jpiniero]

If the cpu itself draw 1000 watts or maybe more with LN, how do you supply power to the whole system? More than one PSU?

They are rare but there are a few 220/240 V power supplies out there.

 

[iamgenius]

They are rare but there are a few 220/240 V power supplies out there.

What do you mean? The voltage from the wall outlet? Where I live the wall outlet is 220 volts and 13 amps. But power supplies today are compatible with both 220 volts outlets and 110 volts outlets. Do you mean it is different with 220 volts outlets?

 

[iamgenius]

At some point, there were 1,600 W flowing in this LN2 demo, not counting spikes. Two power supplies were used. Source: der8auer "Vergiss Intel! Diese CPU übertrifft einfach ALLES" video, from 16:00 on (German audio)

I see. Thanks. So if you are serious about overclocking a threadripper, you will need a 2nd power supply. I didn't know about this. Can you run both power supplies with one wall outlet? My wall outlet is 220 volts/ 13 amps. Is it different for 110 v wall outlets like in the US?

Thanks again.

 

[jpiniero]

What do you mean? The voltage from the wall outlet? Where I live the wall outlet is 220 volts and 13 amps. But power supplies today are compatible with both 220 volts outlets and 110 volts outlets. Do you mean it is different with 220 volts outlets?

https://www.newegg.com/fsp-cannon-pro-2000-w/p/1HU-0095-000U9

2000 W PSU... but according to the spec they only support 1200 on 110 V. The practical max of 110 V is like 1500 W.

 

[iamgenius]

https://www.newegg.com/fsp-cannon-pro-2000-w/p/1HU-0095-000U9

2000 W PSU... but according to the spec they only support 1200 on 110 V. The practical max of 110 V is like 1500 W.

I see. I went there and looked. It says that it can only generate 2000 watts only when plugged to 220 v AC outlet. So with large PSU's, you are better off using a 220v circuit. Can I take that as a general rule?

 

[Abwx]

I see. I went there and looked. It says that it can only generate 2000 watts only when plugged to 220 v AC outlet. So with large PSU, you are better off using a 220v circuit. Can I take that as a general rule?

Yes, a same PSU has better efficency with a 220V main compared to a110V one.

This is due to voltage drop in some primary components being much higher with a lower input voltage since it require 2x the current for a same power, that is, 2000W amount to 9 Amperes at 220V and 18 Amperes at 110V.

 

[LightningZ71]

20A 120Vac outlets aren't particularly uncommon in the US. They can support a load that goes over 2000 watts quite well. I personally use them regularly in LAN closets feeding 1500-2200KVA UPS units. Typically, though, the units above 2000KVA are looking for 30 AMP 120Vac twist lock plugs, or 220V twist locks.

 

[Markfw]

20A 120Vac outlets aren't particularly uncommon in the US. They can support a load that goes over 2000 watts quite well. I personally use them regularly in LAN closets feeding 1500-2200KVA UPS units. Typically, though, the units above 2000KVA are looking for 30 AMP 120Vac twist lock plugs, or 220V twist locks.

As someone who has 4 20amp and 2 30amp 120v circuits, let me says first. 15a circuits do 1875 watts, and 20a circuits do 2400 watts. And 20a circuits are becoming more and more common in the US. My son is an architectural planner and plan writer, and lately, just the kitchens are 7 20a circuits in high end homes.

Edit: I was off, from google:
"Kitchens use the most electricity of any room in the house. In new builds, kitchens require a minimum of eight circuits. Kitchen lighting must be provided by a separate circuit of 15 or 20 amps."

One more tidbit:
"A modern refrigerator requires a dedicated 20-amp circuit. "

The microwave oven needs a dedicated 20-amp, the 120/125-volt circuit to feed it. This will require 12/2 NM wire with a ground.

top your counter-top you will need two dedicated 20-amp, 120/125-volt circuits to run your small appliance loads, including devices such toasters, electric griddles, coffee pots, blenders, etc. Two circuits are the minimum required by code; you can also install more if your needs require them.

And the rest of the house contains more 20 amp circuits than it used to.

 

[LightningZ71]

I recently renovated my kitchen and took it's single 20 amp circuit (that used to trip often) and upgrades it to 4 20A circuits and a single 15A overhead lighting curcuit.