Discussion Speculation: Zen 4 (EPYC 4 "Genoa", Ryzen 7000, etc.)

[Vattila]

Except for the details about the improvements in the microarchitecture, we now know pretty well what to expect with Zen 3.

The leaked presentation by AMD Senior Manager Martin Hilgeman shows that EPYC 3 "Milan" will, as promised and expected, reuse the current platform (SP3), and the system architecture and packaging looks to be the same, with the same 9-die chiplet design and the same maximum core and thread-count (no SMT-4, contrary to rumour). The biggest change revealed so far is the enlargement of the compute complex from 4 cores to 8 cores, all sharing a larger L3 cache ("32+ MB", likely to double to 64 MB, I think).

Hilgeman's slides did also show that EPYC 4 "Genoa" is in the definition phase (or was at the time of the presentation in September, at least), and will come with a new platform (SP5), with new memory support (likely DDR5).

What else do you think we will see with Zen 4? PCI-Express 5 support? Increased core-count? 4-way SMT? New packaging (interposer, 2.5D, 3D)? Integrated memory on package (HBM)?

Vote in the poll and share your thoughts!

 

[Timmah!]

Just saw new RedGamingTech video titled HUGE Zen5 clocks and benchmarks news, or something like that. Pretty much rehashing the previous video. I am mildly annoyed.
EDIT: Wrong thread, sorry

 

[eek2121]

What's with there being no V-cache TR part?

It can't be that there is no demand for it. What is AMD's excuse? What do they have against making a little more money over the already exorbitant TR pricing?

We don’t have a 7990X part yet, perhaps there might be one in the future.

A 64 Core 5.3Ghz X3D part would amazing.

 

[LightningZ71]

I've said this before: there is a real market for a motherboard manufacturer and a chip producer to produce a motherboard for AM5 that has a 16 PCIe 5.0 to 64 lane PCIe 4.0 (2x oversubscribed) PLX chip for a "prosumer" motherboard that has 4 x X16 slots or 6 X x8/x16 slots. There are precious few PCIe 5 cards out there and still not many 4.0 cards. Such a board would more than satisfy most of the "needs tons of I/O market" that would be more than happy with a vanilla 7950x chip. Even at a board cost if $1000, it would still be considerably cheaper than the lowest end TR setup.

 

[SteinFG]

I've said this before: there is a real market for a motherboard manufacturer and a chip producer to produce a motherboard for AM5 that has a 16 PCIe 5.0 to 64 lane PCIe 4.0 (2x oversubscribed) PLX chip for a "prosumer" motherboard that has 4 x X16 slots or 6 X x8/x16 slots. There are precious few PCIe 5 cards out there and still not many 4.0 cards. Such a board would more than satisfy most of the "needs tons of I/O market" that would be more than happy with a vanilla 7950x chip. Even at a board cost if $1000, it would still be considerably cheaper than the lowest end TR setup.

Threadripper 1000/2000/3000 still exists though. Manufacturers would be competing with the second hand market if they'll create boards with all features already present in previous gens

 

[LightningZ71]

TR 1000/2000 are broadly irrelevant at this point. Yes, they exist, but all are out of warranty and surpassed by the 7900/50 in every measure, especially when you include avx-512. You know what else has been out there forever? Used servers. Those have always competed with the "needs tons of I/O" market.

TR 3000 is pricey across the board, and to get to 7900/50 performance levels, you are spending even money or better.

ALL of that consumes considerably more power than 79xx am5.

 

[Markfw]

TR 1000/2000 are broadly irrelevant at this point. Yes, they exist, but all are out of warranty and surpassed by the 7900/50 in every measure, especially when you include avx-512. You know what else has been out there forever? Used servers. Those have always competed with the "needs tons of I/O" market.

TR 3000 is pricey across the board, and to get to 7900/50 performance levels, you are spending even money or better.

ALL of that consumes considerably more power than 79xx am5.

I have to agree. I am trying to sell all my hardware below Zen 4. Not having a lot of luck.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I have to agree. I am trying to sell all my hardware below Zen 4. Not having a lot of luck.

We're in a bit of a strange economy at the moment as well. Cash availability is low due to rising interest rates, but prices are continuing to creep upward (though not at 9% anymore, thank goodness). In other words it's hard to sell a depreciating asset right now.

 

[iamgenius]

Interesting. So threadrippers are back. I wonder how much the 64-core variant will cost. I don't need that kind of power but I'm crazy enough to buy it. Can't wait for the reviews.

 

[jpiniero]

Interesting. So threadrippers are back. I wonder how much the 64-core variant will cost. I don't need that kind of power but I'm crazy enough to buy it. Can't wait for the reviews.

$4999

 

[iamgenius]

$4999

Yeah I just saw it in AMD's website. Didn't know it is already announced. 32-core is more balanced I think.

AMD Introduces New AMD Ryzen Threadripper 7000 Series Processors and Ryzen Threadripper PRO 7000 WX-Series Processors for the Ultimate Workstation

Browse AMD’s company-wide and financial press releases.

ir.amd.com

 

[Thibsie]

Even an old gen 1/2 threadripper / epyc would welcome in my classroom, really.
Quad core server is meh...

 

[FlameTail]

Hey guys.

So I am going to calculate the ST IPC of 7840HS and 7700X.

7840HS = 474.9

7700X = 553.8

Now that's a substantial (~15%) IPC advantage for the 7700X.

Now, I am aware that the 7840HS only has 16 MB L3 cache vs the 32 MB L3 in the 7700X. That's the L3 cache.

What other factors account for the 15% IPC gap?

 

[Kepler_L2]

View attachment 88502View attachment 88503

Hey guys.

So I am going to calculate the ST IPC of 7840HS and 7700X.

7840HS = 474.9

7700X = 553.8

Now that's a substantial (~15%) IPC advantage for the 7700X.

Now, I am aware that the 7840HS only has 16 MB L3 cache vs the 32 MB L3 in the 7700X. That's the L3 cache.

What other factors account for the 15% IPC gap?

The real frequency gap is larger than the on-paper specs.

 

[Mopetar]

Even an old gen 1/2 threadripper / epyc would welcome in my classroom, really.
Quad core server is meh...

When Epyc first launched, we put together a 64 core server (2P 32-core Epyc CPUs) for a little over $11k. It cost about the same as a single top-end Xeon (at that time) that had 28 cores.

It's still in use to this day hosting various VMs for an odd assortment of projects and other stuff.

Maybe check around with local companies. Some might have some servers like that getting close to their EOL that they might just give away if it's going to educational use.

 

[Markfw]

When Epyc first launched, we put together a 64 core server (2P 32-core Epyc CPUs) for a little over $11k. It cost about the same as a single top-end Xeon (at that time) that had 28 cores.

It's still in use to this day hosting various VMs for an odd assortment of projects and other stuff.

Maybe check around with local companies. Some might have some servers like that getting close to their EOL that they might just give away if it's going to educational use.

I have a 1950x that I would give to a good home, but you need to be within driving distance of Portland, Oregon

 

[Thibsie]

I have a 1950x that I would give to a good home, but you need to be within driving distance of Portland, Oregon

I'm a tad little but further (Europe lol) but thanks

 

[Joe NYC]

If this is true, and AMD is releasing 5700x3d and 5500x3d, I am wondering why not 7600x3d?

AMD readies 8-Core Ryzen 7 5700X3D and 6-core Ryzen 5 5500X3D with 96MB L3 Cache - VideoCardz.com

AMD preparing Ryzen 5700X3D and 5500X3D AMD to launch two new processors with 8 and 6 cores, equipped with 3D V-Cache. As per information from chi11eddog, a reliable source for hardware leaks regarding CPU and motherboard launches, AMD is reportedly in the process of developing at least two...

videocardz.com

 

[Saylick]

Not much discussion for me to add but C&C posted a new article on the Zen 4 CCD, which includes some comparison to Zen 3 and Zen 2's CCD.

Checking Out Zen 4’s Die Photo

We looked at AMD’s Zen 4 from a software perspective in a few articles. Thanks to Fritzchens Fritz, we have very high resolution die photos of AMD’s Zen 4 and prior Zen generations. Tha…

chipsandcheese.com

 

[moinmoin]

If this is true, and AMD is releasing 5700x3d and 5500x3d, I am wondering why not 7600x3d?

Who says they won't? Just calculate how long AMD took to launch the former to get an idea when it may launch the latter.

 

[Joe NYC]

Who says they won't? Just calculate how long AMD took to launch the former to get an idea when it may launch the latter.

I think the incentive for AMD is to grow volume for the AM5 platform. And to be able to remove any reason for people to get Intel's 1x600 and 1x700 CPUs.

OTOH, the Zen 3 chips on trailing edge 7nm and Global Foundries I/O die must be extremely inexpensive to manufacture.

I think one notable observation we can draw from this is that the cost of adding V-Cache is extremely low. Based on adding V-Cache to quite a low end CPUs.

I also wonder how long the 5600x3d is with MicroCenter. It would make sense to make that one widely available, before launching these new models...

 

[nicalandia]

World Record on Air... 4.8 Ghz all Core Boost.

AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 7995WX 96 Core CPU Rips Through Cinebench With Record-Breaking Performance, On An Air Cooler!

AMD has just released record-breaking performance numbers for its upcoming 96-Core flagship CPU, the Ryzen Threadripper PRO 7995WX.

www.google.com

 

[Det0x]

World Record on Air... 4.8 Ghz all Core Boost.

AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 7995WX 96 Core CPU Rips Through Cinebench With Record-Breaking Performance, On An Air Cooler!

AMD has just released record-breaking performance numbers for its upcoming 96-Core flagship CPU, the Ryzen Threadripper PRO 7995WX.

www.google.com

"I wonder what LN2 will do?" LOL

The actual scores:

Sampson`s Cinebench - R23 Multi Core with BenchMate score: 161259 cb with a Ryzen Threadripper PRO 7995WX

The Ryzen Threadripper PRO 7995WX @ 4791.4MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the Cinebench - R23 Multi Core with BenchMate benchmark. Sampsonranks #null worldwide and #null in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.

hwbot.org

Sampson`s Cinebench - R20 score: 61538 cb with a Ryzen Threadripper PRO 7995WX

The Ryzen Threadripper PRO 7995WX @ 4816.3MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the Cinebench - R20 benchmark. Sampsonranks #null worldwide and #null in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.

hwbot.org

Sampson`s Cinebench - R15 score: 23697 cb with a Ryzen Threadripper PRO 7995WX

The Ryzen Threadripper PRO 7995WX @ 4875MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the Cinebench - R15 benchmark. Sampsonranks #null worldwide and #null in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.

hwbot.org

Pretty sure all the sapphire rapids 3495X records are about to get flatten

 

[Saylick]

World Record on Air... 4.8 Ghz all Core Boost.

AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 7995WX 96 Core CPU Rips Through Cinebench With Record-Breaking Performance, On An Air Cooler!

AMD has just released record-breaking performance numbers for its upcoming 96-Core flagship CPU, the Ryzen Threadripper PRO 7995WX.

www.google.com

My god, WCCFTech's comments section just gave me cancer.

 

[Markfw]

"I wonder what LN2 will do?" LOL

The actual scores:

Sampson`s Cinebench - R23 Multi Core with BenchMate score: 161259 cb with a Ryzen Threadripper PRO 7995WX

The Ryzen Threadripper PRO 7995WX @ 4791.4MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the Cinebench - R23 Multi Core with BenchMate benchmark. Sampsonranks #null worldwide and #null in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.

hwbot.org

Sampson`s Cinebench - R20 score: 61538 cb with a Ryzen Threadripper PRO 7995WX

The Ryzen Threadripper PRO 7995WX @ 4816.3MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the Cinebench - R20 benchmark. Sampsonranks #null worldwide and #null in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.

hwbot.org

Sampson`s Cinebench - R15 score: 23697 cb with a Ryzen Threadripper PRO 7995WX

The Ryzen Threadripper PRO 7995WX @ 4875MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the Cinebench - R15 benchmark. Sampsonranks #null worldwide and #null in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.

hwbot.org

Pretty sure all the sapphire rapids 3495X records are about to get flatten

As I understand it (its somewhere in this forum) the 3495x score of 131k was with ln2. So, yea they are blown to hell.

Edit: here it is ! 1900 watts for 132K. So confirmed that 3495x records are history and the 7995 does it on air with almost 50% of the power of the 3495x under LN2 !!!

Intel Xeon W9-3495X Uses Almost 1,900 Watts in LN2 Overclocking Run

The result was an eye-popping score of 132,000 in Cinebench.

www.extremetech.com

 

[moinmoin]

Not much discussion for me to add but C&C posted a new article on the Zen 4 CCD, which includes some comparison to Zen 3 and Zen 2's CCD.

Checking Out Zen 4’s Die Photo

We looked at AMD’s Zen 4 from a software perspective in a few articles. Thanks to Fritzchens Fritz, we have very high resolution die photos of AMD’s Zen 4 and prior Zen generations. Tha…

chipsandcheese.com

Given all the talking points relying on area used the complete omission of Zen 4c is kind of unfortunate. I guess C&C can do a follow up post once a high res die photo of that exists.