Israel: We Are At War

[mikeymikec]

Thank you for the detailed reply.
1st response:
Someone posted this is Palestine with a map. I have never seen "Palestine" written on a map and wanted to know if I was missing something. You might not like the question but it is legit.

Some countries don't recognise the state of Palestine yet no doubt the media in their country routinely mentions the name of the place that allegedly doesn't exist, that's all there is to it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine#/media/File:Palestine_recognition_only.svg

Overall it's a very odd question you're asking. How should the world refer to Palestine, perhaps "not Israel yet"? "Free Real Estate For Jewish people only"? Why do you care? If you honestly didn't know where Palestine was, then just accept the knowledge you've been offered and move on?

2nd response:
I would have been against the attack on Oct 7 knowing there would be a response. What did Hamas expect after they restarted hostilities with Israel? What should Israel's response have been after Oct. 7th if not retaliation?

Israel's hostilities towards Palestine have never stopped. Your question is like asking why the IRA bombed the UK during 'The Troubles' and 'restarted hostilities'. As for what Israel's response to Oct 7th should have been, that depends on what their intention is. They decided to commit genocide, over 30k Palestinians dead since Oct 7th, over 70% of civilian structures in Gaza have been destroyed. That tells you what their intention is.

3rd response:
I'll ask this again

It's interesting how you ask questions, largely ignore the answers and then imply that no-one has given you an answer.

 

[raildogg]

Someone said there is no Palestine written on a map. Well, are you saying the map with American president Truman is a made up map?

 

[raildogg]

Another map with Palestine:

And here is US president Truman saying "you can't move five or six million people out of a country and fill it up with five or six million more and expect both sets of them to be pleased."

 

[fskimospy]

Someone said there is no Palestine written on a map. Well, are you saying the map with American president Truman is a made up map?

The fact that you have to pull up a map from close to a century ago sort of proves his point.

 

[Hulk]

Some countries don't recognise the state of Palestine yet no doubt the media in their country routinely mentions the name of the place that allegedly doesn't exist, that's all there is to it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine#/media/File:Palestine_recognition_only.svg

Overall it's a very odd question you're asking. How should the world refer to Palestine, perhaps "not Israel yet"? "Free Real Estate For Jewish people only"? Why do you care? If you honestly didn't know where Palestine was, then just accept the knowledge you've been offered and move on?



Israel's hostilities towards Palestine have never stopped. Your question is like asking why the IRA bombed the UK during 'The Troubles' and 'restarted hostilities'. As for what Israel's response to Oct 7th should have been, that depends on what their intention is. They decided to commit genocide, over 30k Palestinians dead since Oct 7th, over 70% of civilian structures in Gaza have been destroyed. That tells you what their intention is.



It's interesting how you ask questions, largely ignore the answers and then imply that no-one has given you an answer.

I am trying to sort out truth from fiction. I'm hearing and reading a lot of different "truths."

For example, I heard that there are many Palestinians that live in the Jewish part of Israel peacefully and have been for decades? Is this true or propaganda?

It seems to me that the UN made a bad decision by "giving" that land away when the majority population was Palestinian for hundreds if not thousands of years. I have read the UN and much of the world felt sorry for the Jews after the Holocaust and gave them a state of their own called Israel. It's hard to argue that was a bad decision.

The Jews on the other hand probably feel as though they were "legally" given the land by the UN so it is theirs and obviously they aren't going to just move out now.

So here we are. Israel with a sophisticated modern day military, on a land they were given by the UN, named "Israel," that they govern as they see fit. The Palestinians were made 2nd class citizens in what has always been their homeland. I get it.

Given the disparity of both sides' position, is a two state solution possible?

I'm really just trying to come at this as if I landed here from another planet and trying to understand without a bias. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I get it that my questions may seem naive but I am just probing and not intentionally trying to be contentious.

 

[emperus]

I am trying to sort out truth from fiction. I'm hearing and reading a lot of different "truths."

For example, I heard that there are many Palestinians that live in the Jewish part of Israel peacefully and have been for decades? Is this true or propaganda?

It seems to me that the UN made a bad decision by "giving" that land away when the majority population was Palestinian for hundreds if not thousands of years. I have read the UN and much of the world felt sorry for the Jews after the Holocaust and gave them a state of their own called Israel. It's hard to argue that was a bad decision.

The Jews on the other hand probably feel as though they were "legally" given the land by the UN so it is theirs and obviously they aren't going to just move out now.

So here we are. Israel with a sophisticated modern day military, on a land they were given by the UN, named "Israel," that they govern as they see fit. The Palestinians were made 2nd class citizens in what has always been their homeland. I get it.

Given the disparity of both sides' position, is a two state solution possible?

I'm really just trying to come at this as if I landed here from another planet and trying to understand without a bias. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I get it that my questions may seem naive but I am just probing and not intentionally trying to be contentious.

I'm not sure it's contentious but some of your questions don't seem like they are coming from an honest place of trying to get answers. I could be wrong though.

 

[mikeymikec]

I am trying to sort out truth from fiction. I'm hearing and reading a lot of different "truths."

For example, I heard that there are many Palestinians that live in the Jewish part of Israel peacefully and have been for decades? Is this true or propaganda?

When the state is willing to commit genocide and subject some of the people in apartheid rule, do you really think those being subjugated are living in peace?

The Jews on the other hand probably feel as though they were "legally" given the land by the UN so it is theirs and obviously they aren't going to just move out now.

Nobody here has suggested they should.

Given the disparity of both sides' position, is a two state solution possible?

What we know is that the Israeli government and Hamas are extremists. The group with the greatest power to change the status quo are the Israeli people because they could vote their government out and opt for a more moderate approach with Palestine, though from what I understand, the younger generations are indoctrinated with "Palestinians are subhuman" and "it's OK to kill the children of your enemy" propaganda. The next strongest group to affect change is the US: If they pulled their support for Israel and stopped selling weapons to them, then perhaps even the Israeli government would have to temper their approach for fear of running out of weapons.

 

[raildogg]

Israel is committing genocide using American weapons and American politicians are trying to stop the increasing anti-Israel protests in America.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1782593465156837409

It's very good to see the young people and others in America rising up against Israel's genocide. But they will now face opposition from US politicians and American media - both extremely pro-Israel and they will use their powers to restrict these protests.

People are calling for US security forces to stop these protests because some people don't like them. You know because Israel is America's greatest ally and best friend, and America cannot risk offending them. And from my understanding these are peaceful protests which are simply protesting Israel's genocide.. So it is good to see American people standing up like this, even though the country's foreign policy is absolutely horrible.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1782078080334307736

 

[raildogg]

If you think Israel was terrible, well it is worse than that actually:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1782239288010403881

 

[Jaskalas]

How can the American/European people sleep when their taxes are sent as bombs to kill the people of Gaza?

Israel is committing genocide using American weapons and American politicians are trying to stop the increasing anti-Israel protests in America.

Wake me up when Israel kills as many people as Russia.
Or you support us attacking Russia.

Then at least, we could consistently say Israel has stepped beyond something you already endorse.

 

[raildogg]

These Anandtech people don't care about Palestinian lives, Shervan. We can see it. This is largely because Israel is a Western colonial country, similar to America and others. Therefore, they cannot be too critical of Israel. Plus, Israel is an ally of America so that's another reason.

Thus, these posters, as here are posting, are justifying Israel's genocide as are the US media and US politicians.

But that is OK, every day reveals more crimes of Israel that even these people will not be able to hide. You must realize that the world outside of America and Europe is truly horrified at the genocide in Gaza. Americans are shielded largely because of protection of Israel by US media and politicians.

Despite that, the brave American young people are out protesting. So I do salute these Americans. Despite being heavily criticized by their ruling class of people, they are brave enough to endure that.

 

[raildogg]

Please look at the damage American aid to Israel does:

AP: 'Israeli Strikes on Gaza City of Rafah Kill 22, Mostly Children, as U.S. Advances Aid Package'

Israel bombed 'mostly children' in Rafah on Saturday night just hours after the US House approved the largest aid package ever for the Jewish State, the AP reports

www.informationliberation.com

AP: 'Israeli Strikes on Gaza City of Rafah Kill 22, Mostly Children, as U.S. Advances Aid Package'​

Israeli strikes on the southern Gaza city of Rafah overnight killed 22 people, including 18 children, health officials said Sunday, as the United States was on track to approve billions of dollars of additional military aid to Israel, its close ally.

Israel has carried out near-daily air raids on Rafah, where more than half of Gaza's population of 2.3 million has sought refuge from fighting elsewhere. It has also vowed to expand its ground offensive against the Hamas militant group to the city on the border with Egypt despite calls for restraint, including from the U.S.

This is modern day Israel, backed by America:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1781995666593456397

 

[raildogg]

Western media doesn't care, they are trying to shut down anti-Israel protests by young people and others in America. Because Israel is America's greatest ally.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1782025947102806163

 

[Shervan360]

 

[Pohemi]

So this is only further proving what people already knew: America is an enemy of the Palestinian people.

I don't see Democrats condemning this so I can assume they must be OK with this as well.

You won't see what you don't want to see. It doesn't mean it didn't occur.

As usual these people got nothing to offer the thread so they can only take it off course. Anandtech is fine with that I am sure.

This is what happens when people are desperate. They get too emotional and lack any reasoning ability. You can continue with your childish games, I will simply not participate.

Fuck off, comrade.

 

[Leeea]

What did Hamas expect after they restarted hostilities with Israel? What should Israel's response have been after Oct. 7th if not retaliation?

1: War


2: Encircle the place, and then nothing. Help Palestinians flee to other Palestinian areas. Wait for the Palestinians that are going to flee to finish fleeing, and then start delivering humanitarian aid in a manner not controlled by Hamas. Continue to aid Palestinians fleeing even after this is done. Let Hamas rule their Kingdom of Flies as it disintegrates. Execute the leader of Hamas, Benjamin Netanyahu. The man that empowered them, financed them, armed them, and organized them.


3a. Nothing. 3b. Nothing. 3c. When we are all dead. Life is conflict.


Innocent children? There are 13 million children in the USA living in food insecure situations. That cycle has to stop.
Innocent children? There are 4 million children in the USA recommended for protection from abuse every year, but the agency can only take about 700,000.

 

[IronWing]

Innocent children? There are 13 million children in the USA living in food insecure situations. That cycle has to stop.
Innocent children? There are 4 million children in the USA recommended for protection from abuse every year, but the agency can only take about 700,000.

Budgets will be cut until results improve!

 

[Drach]

Normally I prefer to stay out of other countries business but since we give an ungodly amount to Israel I feel like I have a voice in this matter.

Nancy Pelosi says Israel's Netanyahu 'should resign' as prime minister

Pelosi’s comments follow Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer's call for new elections in Israel.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[amenx]

A special State Department panel recommended months ago that Secretary of State Antony Blinken disqualify multiple Israeli military and police units from receiving U.S. aid after reviewing allegations that they committed serious human rights abuses...

The incidents under review mostly took place in the West Bank and occurred before Hamas’ Oct. 7 attack on Israel. They include reports of extrajudicial killings by the Israeli Border Police; an incident in which a battalion gagged, handcuffed and left an elderly Palestinian American man for dead; and an allegation that interrogators tortured and raped a teenager who had been accused of throwing rocks and Molotov cocktails.

A State Department spokesperson told ProPublica the agency takes its commitment to uphold U.S. human rights laws seriously. “This process is one that demands a careful and full review,” the spokesperson said, “and the department undergoes a fact-specific investigation applying the same standards and procedures regardless of the country in question.”...

Blinken Is Sitting on Staff Recommendations to Sanction Israeli Military Units Linked to Killings or Rapes

A special State Department panel told Secretary of State Antony Blinken that the U.S. should restrict arms sales to Israeli military units that have been credibly accused of human rights abuses. He has not taken any action.

www.propublica.org

 

[fskimospy]

Israel is committing genocide using American weapons and American politicians are trying to stop the increasing anti-Israel protests in America.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1782593465156837409

It's very good to see the young people and others in America rising up against Israel's genocide. But they will now face opposition from US politicians and American media - both extremely pro-Israel and they will use their powers to restrict these protests.

People are calling for US security forces to stop these protests because some people don't like them. You know because Israel is America's greatest ally and best friend, and America cannot risk offending them. And from my understanding these are peaceful protests which are simply protesting Israel's genocide.. So it is good to see American people standing up like this, even though the country's foreign policy is absolutely horrible.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1782078080334307736

Odd that you don't have the same admiration for Americans opposing Russia's genocide. I wonder why?

 

[amenx]

Normally I prefer to stay out of other countries business but since we give an ungodly amount to Israel I feel like I have a voice in this matter.

Nancy Pelosi says Israel's Netanyahu 'should resign' as prime minister

Pelosi’s comments follow Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer's call for new elections in Israel.

www.nbcnews.com

Not only that but when some ask "why do they hate us" when many have witnessed their entire families wiped out by 2000lb bombs or cluster munitions supplied by the US (1982 Lebanon war and other numerous IDF acts) should come to mind when terrorists spawned from such events attack the US.

 

[fskimospy]

Normally I prefer to stay out of other countries business but since we give an ungodly amount to Israel I feel like I have a voice in this matter.

Nancy Pelosi says Israel's Netanyahu 'should resign' as prime minister

Pelosi’s comments follow Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer's call for new elections in Israel.

www.nbcnews.com

Not to mention Netanyahu certainly feels no need to stay out of our politics so we should happily return the favor.

 

[amenx]

Mass grave with 324 bodies was uncovered this week... some of the bodies had been found with hands and feet tied

The United Nations has called for an “independent, effective and transparent investigation” into the discovery of mass graves at two Gaza hospitals that were besieged and raided by Israeli troops this year.

The UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Volker Türk said in a statement he was “horrified” by the scenes reported from both the Nasser and Al Shifa medical complexes in the besieged enclave.

“Given the prevailing climate of impunity, this should include international investigators,” Türk said. “Hospitals are entitled to very special protection under international humanitarian law. And the intentional killing of civilians, detainees, and others who are hors de combat is a war crime,” he added, referring to non-combatants.

A mass grave with 324 bodies was uncovered this week at the Nasser Medical Complex in the southern Gaza city of Khan Younis by Gaza Civil Defense workers following the withdrawal of Israeli forces from the area....

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/24/middleeast/un-calls-for-investigation-gaza-mass-graves-mime-intl/index.html

 

[Drach]

Mass grave with 324 bodies was uncovered this week... some of the bodies had been found with hands and feet tied

The United Nations has called for an “independent, effective and transparent investigation” into the discovery of mass graves at two Gaza hospitals that were besieged and raided by Israeli troops this year.

The UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Volker Türk said in a statement he was “horrified” by the scenes reported from both the Nasser and Al Shifa medical complexes in the besieged enclave.

“Given the prevailing climate of impunity, this should include international investigators,” Türk said. “Hospitals are entitled to very special protection under international humanitarian law. And the intentional killing of civilians, detainees, and others who are hors de combat is a war crime,” he added, referring to non-combatants.

A mass grave with 324 bodies was uncovered this week at the Nasser Medical Complex in the southern Gaza city of Khan Younis by Gaza Civil Defense workers following the withdrawal of Israeli forces from the area....

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/24/middleeast/un-calls-for-investigation-gaza-mass-graves-mime-intl/index.html

Disgusting. I have nothing else to say.

 

[raildogg]

https://www.reddit.com/r/therewasanattempt/comments/1bmuvm7/to_be_a_kid_in_palestine

This is Israel, please try to defend this. This is how Palestinians have been treated since whenever Israel has power over them, which has been for decades. And then you have American politicians saying that they need to stop all the young people protesting across America. This shows you that America has no moral decency left at the higher levels.

To the protestors of America, well they are simply brave people to stand up to terrible people.

But since Palestine has no big lobby groups in America, their power is very weak. US leadership will simply continue with supporting genocide in Gaza and other Palestinian areas. I hope I am wrong however.