So the US and Europe are not solely responsible for sending arms to the region?
@dank69
Yes, as I said before, half of the countries in the Middle East are supported by the USA/Europe, and others are supported by China and Russia.
How come the map doesn't read Palestine? I was under the impression that area has been contested for thousands of years?Here is a map of what Palestine looked like in 1946:
I'm not entirely sure if a history lesson is in order but I've put it in spoiler tags if you want it:
This is what Palestine officially looks like today:The region that is being talked about has had a pretty chaotic history. Israel existed then basically no longer existed for over a millennium; Jewish people in the region known as Palestine - which is basically current Palestine and Israel as one land mass, e.g. the above map.
The historic demographics of Palestine indicate that Jewish people were an absolute minority in the majority of recorded history in that region:
Demographic history of Palestine (region) - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Jewish people have been the target of anti-semitism just about everywhere on the planet since god knows when. They've been shunned in many societies for various reasons, excluded from most jobs and for example forced into jobs like money-lending and then shunned for always being money lenders. A gigantic shit sandwich for them. Then along came the notion of Zionism, late nineteenth Century: The idea that Jewish people would be better off all moving somewhere and running their own state, thus guaranteeing their rights and no longer being treated as second-class humans. A notion that at face value I sympathise with, however, since land does not just suddenly appear, they would have to pick somewhere and they got it into their heads that the place their ancestors lived like over 1000 years before is where they ought to be. A place where Palestinians already lived.
So Zionism resulted in the Jewish demographic of Palestine shifting from 3% in 1800 to 8% in 1890 (start of Zionism) to 32% by 1947 (much of which was refugee traffic post WW2). The British were still administering Palestine up to 1947 and various plans had been brought up and shelved (world wars tend to do that), but wanted to get out.
This UN proposal basically gave away two thirds of Palestinian land to Jewish people who only made up 32% of the population, unsurprisingly this was not a popular plan in Palestine, but "civilised" nations didn't want to take Jewish refugees so they ought to be dumped somewhere else to be someone else's problem, plus Zionism made Palestine a more attractive target to Jewish people.United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
However, this is what are considered to be Palestinian-controlled areas:
Palestine has been subjected to an apartheid regime for a long time now, for example:
Israel is also fine colonising Palestine, after all they need breathing room for the 'Law of Return':
Israeli settlement - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.orgIsraeli settler violence - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Palestinian police are not empowered to stop this violence, to ensure that Palestinians' rights are protected.
More info about the apartheid regime:
Israel and apartheid - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Okay so the Palestinians are occupied by Hamas? So they are under subjugation by both Israel and Hamas? It's worse than I thought!Yes, you are wrong. Hamas won a plurality in the last election nearly 18 years ago, largely as a protest vote against a governing party that repeatedly failed to deliver on promises, and Hamas has used that election to effectively seize power and stop all subsequent elections. They hardly have a legitimate claim to governing power in Gaza.
In a way, yes. Palestinians who spoke out against Hamas were known to be persecuted. And now they are caught between a state that doesn't care about their well being and a terrorist organization that only uses them for props and human shields.Okay so the Palestinians are occupied by Hamas? So they are under subjugation by both Israel and Hamas? It's worse than I thought!
Minouche Shafik, president of Columbia University, sends an email around 1 pm on April 18th alerting the university body that she has given the New York Police Department permission to arrest hundreds of students while paying homage to Columbia’s legacy of activism within the same correspondence.
Students respond by linking arms.
Columbia University student organizers set up the Gaza Solidarity Encampment on April 17. Sixty tents occupied the campus’s east lawn to push the university to divest from Israel’s ongoing genocide in Gaza. The encampment, inspired by ‘68’s occupation of Hamilton Hall and ‘85’s demonstrations at Mandela Hall, is not Columbia’s first attempt at divestment from the Zionist state. In 2020, a referendum calling on the university to divest from companies invested in Israeli apartheid passed by a large margin, but was ultimately rejected by then president, Lee Bollinger.
As Palestinians brave the occupation in Gaza, students everywhere continue to light the torch of Palestinian liberation on their college campuses. Institutionalized academia has long stood against the radical struggle of student activists, and the last 7 months have proven no different. Activism on college campuses has always been a stronghold for social justice and anti-war movements, but even more than that, it is a study of hope as a discipline. As despair eats at us and threatens hopelessness, students remind us that together, freedom is not only attainable, it is inevitable.
Despite all of this, for as long as student activism has existed, so has repression by their administrative bodies. This has proven especially true over the last 7 months.
And you stand for hypocrisy, pretending to care about Palestinian lives when really, this is all a political game and mission to you. Your values are purely out of convenience.Because America stands with Israel.
Oh shit. That makes me all butthurt.Palestinian authority are not really fighting for the Palestinian people, Hamas are. That is why Hamas is very popular with the Palestinian people and their popularity is rising all over. And this war has been very much a disaster for Israel in all kinds of ways, including militarily and diplomatically. If it were not the Americans protecting them, Israel would have had no choice but to stop the genocide. But since Americans are protecting them, Israel may be suffering but at least they can carry out the genocide.
This new aid to Israel, $26 billion, is a message to the entire world from America : we have no limits to our support for Israel no matter how many people they displace and kill. And the rest of the world has heard this message and knows where America stands. So for the short term, Israel and America are able to genocide people but now the entire world has seen these two countries for what they are.
But even the Palestinian authority is questioning America? A little too late I think. They should have cut off relations with America a long time ago since America is not a serious partner in any negotiation. This might be one reason many Palestinians do not support the Palestinian authority.
It also appears that many young people in America, such as students and others, are increasingly seeing Israel for what it is and are protesting. I hope they are protesting their country just as well since America is equally responsible for Israel's destructive ways. But because of all these protests, US politicians are getting very nervous and trying to find all kinds of ways to limit or stop these protests. One of the most common of these is calling them "antisemitic." This way you can easily shut them down.
From Mondoweiss:
So the more people in America protest against genocide I am sure the American politicians will create more legislation to ban these protests in one way or another. Because America stands with Israel.
My irony meter just brokeAs usual these people got nothing to offer the thread so they can only take it off course. Anandtech is fine with that I am sure.
This is what happens when people are desperate. They get too emotional and lack any reasoning ability. You can continue with your childish games, I will simply not participate.
Israel is abusing UNRWA employees detained in Gaza in order to extract forced confessions against the agency, with detainees describing being subjected to acts of torture.
The forced confessions are likely to be used by Israel in an attempt to incriminate UNRWA, the United Nations agency for Palestine refugees. Israel is seeking to starve UNRWA out of existence through smears and unsubstantiated allegations aimed at drying up the agency’s voluntary funding.
Philippe Lazzarini, the head of the embattled agency, told the UN Security Council on Wednesday that Israel continues to block the provision of life-saving aid as part of its “insidious campaign” to push UNRWA out of the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
More than a dozen countries, including top donors US and Germany, froze funding or suspended future support for UNRWA after Israel alleged that 12 of its employees were involved in the 7 October attacks led by Hamas.
The allegations were made public by the agency on 26 January – the same day that the UN’s World Court stated there is a plausible risk of genocide in Gaza.
Israel has not presented the UN with evidence substantiating its allegations. Despite this, UNRWA dismissed the employees in question, the UN secretary-general ordered an investigation and an independent review of the agency’s adherence to neutrality is expected to make its findings public in the coming days.
During the Security Council meeting on Wednesday, Gilad Erdan, Israel’s ambassador to the UN, accused UNRWA of “creating a sea of Palestinian refugees, millions of them, indoctrinated to believe that Israel belongs to them.”
UNRWA provides government-like services to 5.9 million registered Palestine refugees in Gaza, the West Bank, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria. The agency is mandated by the UN General Assembly to serve the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians who were displaced from their homeland during the ethnic cleansing of Palestine in 1948 and “as a result of the 1967 and subsequent hostilities,” as well as their descendants.
UNRWA staff released from Israeli detention told their employer that in addition to ill treatment that may amount to torture, they were “subjected to threats and coercion” and pressure during interrogations to incriminate the agency.
These “forced confessions against the agency [included] that the agency has affiliations with Hamas and that UNRWA staff took part in the 7 October attacks against Israel.”
According to UNRWA, some staff members were “detained during the performance of their official duties for the UN, including while working at UNRWA installations and in one case during a coordinated humanitarian movement.”
Detained UNRWA staff were subjected to a litany of abuses, they say, such as beatings, including by doctors, attacks by dogs and threats of rape and electrocution. The agency said that its employees underwent treatment akin to waterboarding and had guns pointed at them.
UNRWA staff also experienced “verbal and psychological abuse; threats of murder, injury or harm to family members; humiliating and degrading treatment; being forced to strip naked and being photographed while they are undressed; and being forced to hold stress positions.”
Sure, then I will continue to post. What's your problem? Upset that I try to show what America really is? Well, too bad because that will continue.Anandtech is fine posting your tripe. What else are you butt hert about?
We know people like you definitely don't care about Palestinians so others have to step up. You only care about American hegemony. Are you projecting something? You sound pretty emotional.And you stand for hypocrisy, pretending to care about Palestinian lives when really, this is all a political game and mission to you. Your values are purely out of convenience.
Now fuck off.
We know people like you definitely don't care about Palestinians so others have to step up. You only care about American hegemony. Are you projecting something? You sound pretty emotional.
I don't care about American politics because all your political leaders are crap. So no, this is not politics. Now fuck off and stop projecting and taking this thread off course. This thread is about Palestine and Israel conflict, not your stupid games.
More than 50 percent of Palestinians believe Hamas should govern the Gaza Strip when the current war ends, while just 11 percent want Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to administer the enclave, a survey by a leading Palestinian polling institute has found.
You are the worst kind of hypocrite. The totally unaware kind. The kind responsible for evil.Maybe you are too brain dead to keep track of prolific forum posters who have posted regularly in this thread, in the one thread you are obsessed with because it suits your total moral hypocrisy world view agenda the most. I very clearly have posted that I abhor our excessive support of Israel, a hundred times in this thread, and that has been clear as day, and you ONLY care about Palestinian lives because you want to rail on the US. I am the first to criticize US foreign policy excesses, of which there have been many. With you the difference is you give Putin a pass on his contribution to the misery and death of civilian lives. So, as just about everyone here sees and knows, you could give two shits about innocent lives, it's only expedient when it suits your political agenda.
Now please. Properly fuck off, try to spread your propaganda nonsense in some other forum. I'm done responding to you.
Yeah Putin puppet and after last weekend an Iran puppet. Not sure why I should be surprised, a Hamas puppetI urge everyone to stop responding to this fucking propaganda tool. He's a useless skin suit.
And a Chinese puppet. From the only other thread he posts in, the Russia Ukraine thread.Yeah Putin puppet and after last weekend an Iran puppet. Not sure why I should be surprised, a Hamas puppet
How come the map doesn't read Palestine? I was under the impression that area has been contested for thousands of years?
Not that this has anything to do with today unless the goal is to eradicate the Jews from the area because it is not their land?
I think your intentionally being a bit dim on the first question.How come the map doesn't read Palestine? I was under the impression that area has been contested for thousands of years?
Not that this has anything to do with today unless the goal is to eradicate the Jews from the area because it is not their land?
Thank you for the detailed reply.I think your intentionally being a bit dim on the first question.
2nd question:
The Israel, exterminates (genocides) the natives, the canaanites, show up around 850 BC. And then splits into two kingdoms.
The northern kingdom of Isreal is lost 721 BC to Assyria and is scattered.
The southern kingdom of Judah is lost in 586 BC to Babylon and is scattered.
The Jewish people would return under Persian rule 450 to 350 BC. Then be ruled by Hellenistic rulers. Followed by Roman rulers.
And then were tossed out again in AD 135 permanently after upsetting the Romans, scattered.
After that, the area was fought over, but by various arab factions, Palestinian factions, and crusader factions. The Jewish factions were not a significant player.
3rd question:
Do you really think the average Palestinian gives one iota about eradicating anyone? I think they are more concerned about where their next meal is coming from. Their second concern is probably to minimize their chance of being turned into a crater.