The anti-DRM thread

[Artorias]

New patch for RE7/RE2/RE3 just dropped, adding mandatory DX12/RT garbage. Mandatory, because it removes support for previously working configurations like DX11.

Resident Evil 2 - Steam News Hub

Updates, events, and news from the developers of Resident Evil 2.

store.steampowered.com

That’s right, years after release, a patch for these offline single player games now prevents certain paying customers from playing them. And reports are already coming in about stuttering and poor performance inherent to almost every DX12 game ever made.

Nobody asked for this excrement, and CAPCOM’S “workaround” to stay perpetually offline is comically farcical. This is the problem with “games as a service”, folks. Unlike GOG where nobody can ever touch your offline installers.

Capcom reactivates previous versions of Resident Evil PC games after "overwhelming community response"

Capcom has reactivated the previous versions of Resident Evil 2, 3, and 7 on PC, following player feedback. After the C…

www.eurogamer.net

Capcom has reactivated the previous versions of Resident Evil 2, 3, and 7 on PC, following player feedback.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Funny how Steam has all these stats, presumably accessible to publishers and developers, showing a huge amount of old hardware on the platform yet they decide to make harebrained decisions like pushing RT only patches on people.

Can't fix stupid I guess.

 

[DrMrLordX]

LOL player feedback. More like cussing and spitting. Good job to all those who let Capcom have it!

 

[BFG10K]

That isn't DRM tho, that's just an app store being stupid by forcing you to update.

Yes it is. DRM is the mechanism which forces the auto-updates. A required online check is DRM. If there was no Steam and no online check, none of this would be possible from their side.

These problems started when single player games became "a service".

I can promise you this would be an issue even if you had bought the game on discs, unless you were only playing it on an offline machine. Games have been autopatching since forever.

Nope, virtually no single player games auto-patched back in the day. I had 100+ CD/DVD games and not a single one did it. That includes my non-Steam version of HL and expansions, and games as new as COD4 MW1 and COD5 WAW.

For this reason I keep copies of patches for my non-platform games, and you can still get manual patches to this day: https://www.gamewatcher.com/games/call-of-duty-world-at-war/downloads

Steam is directly responsible for causing autopatching of SP games to become a thing.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Yes it is. DRM is the mechanism which forces the auto-updates. A required online check is DRM.

You're stretching the defintion of DRM here.

If there was no Steam

You mean "no auto updating services whatsoever", which predate Steam.

But hey don't let me stop you from starting another anti-Steam tirade. Meanwhile Capcom was the company buggered enough to think that forcing people onto a DX12 rendering path was a good idea.

 

[SMOGZINN]

You're stretching the defintion of DRM here.



You mean "no auto updating services whatsoever", which predate Steam.

But hey don't let me stop you from starting another anti-Steam tirade. Meanwhile Capcom was the company buggered enough to think that forcing people onto a DX12 rendering path was a good idea.

You are talking to the guy that thinks MMO's are DRM.

 

[DrMrLordX]

You are talking to the guy that thinks MMO's are DRM.

There was another poster who was a lot more aggresive on that then him but yeah, basically. It's actually a common enough delusion that you'll find it at least one ranter everywhere complaining about it, never mind that classic MMOs are dying/dead.

 

[Borealis7]

https://www.techpowerup.com/296477/ubisoft-announces-plan-to-shut-down-servers-for-15-games

This announcement says they are shutting down multiplayer. Although not completely bricking these older games, this could happen to other games which require always online and make them unplayable.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Like The Division/The Division 2

 

[yepp]

https://www.techpowerup.com/296477/ubisoft-announces-plan-to-shut-down-servers-for-15-games

This announcement says they are shutting down multiplayer. Although not completely bricking these older games, this could happen to other games which require always online and make them unplayable.

This also breaks the DLCs for those games regardless if singleplayer content, the DLCs require online checks to work, Ubisoft shutting down thier servers will lock you out of the DLCs you paid for.

The deluxe/complete edition you paid for is now the bog standard edition.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

This thread is part of the reason why I am actually playing through and enjoying the games I've already purchased, rather than compulsively buying more.

Even CDs/DVDs scratch, break, become software incompatible with modern operating systems and drivers. You can have a thousand games on GoG and if the service goes down you won't be able to download and save each one. Even if you do, all the old wear and tear issues crop back up.

At the end of the day my enjoyment does not have any DRM installed (well, with the exception of my natural lifespan I guess but that would apply to anything). Instead of worrying where your games live, f'ing play and enjoy them people.

 

[BFG10K]

You're stretching the defintion of DRM here.

Not really, given even a restrictive EULA can be classed as DRM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management

You mean "no auto updating services whatsoever", which predate Steam.

Uh...what?

Again, there were no single player offline titles that required mandatory auto patching prior to Steam. If you think otherwise, list them.

 

[BFG10K]

You are talking to the guy that thinks MMO's are DRM.

You appear to be suffering from extreme confusion. If you think I said such things, provide quotes.

 

[BFG10K]

Sony to remove access to hundreds of movies and TV shows bought through its Playstation Store

Studiocanal and some Lionsgate's films will disappear for German and Austrian customers

mashable.com

Paying customers will lose access to movies/TV shows they legally purchased.

Streaming, online accounts, mandatory logon, cloud...all fancy words for "you own nothing and you have no rights".

 

[DrMrLordX]

Again, there were no single player offline titles that required mandatory auto patching prior to Steam.

Pretty sure you're wrong, but you're talking about titles from before . . . 2003?

In fact Diablo 2 for sure required patching if you even touched battle.net so yeah. There was that.

 

[Aikouka]

Pretty sure you're wrong, but you're talking about titles from before . . . 2003?

In fact Diablo 2 for sure required patching if you even touched battle.net so yeah. There was that.

I think he's talking about updates being automatically downloaded and applied. I recall downloading patches for WarCraft III manually. (I'd keep them in a folder in case I ever needed to reinstall.)

Although, I don't believe Steam mandates this either as I'm pretty sure you can disable automatic updating for games. It's a somewhat common practice with Beat Saber as mods tend to break with (some) updates, and rather than deal with the addition of a song or feature at the loss of all custom songs, people will typically just disable auto-updating.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I think he's talking about updates being automatically downloaded and applied. I recall downloading patches for WarCraft III manually. (I'd keep them in a folder in case I ever needed to reinstall.)

Although, I don't believe Steam mandates this either as I'm pretty sure you can disable automatic updating for games. It's a somewhat common practice with Beat Saber as mods tend to break with (some) updates, and rather than deal with the addition of a song or feature at the loss of all custom songs, people will typically just disable auto-updating.

Starting with Diablo, Blizzard specifically tried to push online updates as often as possible. You may have had the option of offline downloaders, but if you touched battle.net at all you were getting an automatic update pushed to your system. That's how most Blizzard customers got their updates. The era of manual downloads for patches being the primary method for updating is very, very old, and for good reason - it makes software version control a nightmare, especially in an era where you're pushing multiplayer alongside single-player titles. Which was definitely happening as far back as Quake.

 

[BFG10K]

Pretty sure you're wrong...

Again, list them. You've still failed to list any offline single player game that required mandatory auto-patching prior to Steam.

List all these games that "make me wrong".

List them.

...but you're talking about titles from before . . . 2003?

Before and after 2003. Any game that isn't a "service" and therefore doesn't require a launcher to run. Which is all of them prior to Steam.

In fact Diablo 2 for sure required patching if you even touched battle.net so yeah.

I've never had a Battlenet account. I had CD Diablo 2 and at no time did it ever auto-patch or connect to Battlenet in 15+ years of playing. Whatever patch version it used was the one I manually applied myself, including rolling back on occasion.

In fact you can download Diablo 2 directly from Blizzard to this day and enter your CD key offline and it'll work. There's still absolutely no requirement to auto-patch or connect to Battlenet with the latest 1.14d version.

Starting with Diablo, Blizzard specifically tried to push online updates as often as possible.

"Tried to push online updates as much as possible" is not the same thing as "offline single player games require mandatory auto-patching".

Again, list all these games prior to Steam as evidence.

List them.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Again, list them. You've still failed to list any offline single player game that required mandatory auto-patching prior to Steam.

Diablo 2, Diablo, Warcraft 3, pretty much the entire Blizzard catalogue. And yes "tried to push online updates as much as possible" is mandatory enough so I'm digging in my heels. You're just wrong.

 

[BFG10K]

Diablo 2, Diablo, Warcraft 3...

Utter lies, none of those games had mandatory auto patching for offline single player.

I had all three with no Battlenet account. Not once did they connect to Battlenet and/or patch themselves, even with full internet access.

...pretty much the entire Blizzard catalogue.

So after 2 pages you still can't list a single game to back your claim.

And yes "tried to push online updates as much as possible" is mandatory enough so I'm digging in my heels. You're just wrong.

LMFAO. You're either trolling or you don't understand the word "mandatory". In case it's the latter, let me help address your bewilderment. I'll highlight the simpler words to make it easier for you.

Synonyms for mandatory
compulsory, forced, imperative, incumbent, involuntary, necessary, nonelective, obligatory, peremptory, required

 

[DrMrLordX]

Utter lies

No u!

Enjoy arguing with yourself.

 

[sactoking]

I was going to get Two-Point University today on Steam. Saw the Denuvo warning. Noped out of that transaction.

 

[MoragaBlue]

LOL...interesting discussion going on here.

Though I had taken a break, I have been into gaming for a while and recently reengaged in the hobby because GPUs have finally, to some extent, normalized in their pricing schemes. Prior to this, I had never used Steam or any online game service (I never really got the point of it, like that stupid Rockstar Launch thing) but had to in order to claim my free games, Doom Eternal & Ghostwire.

Ah, let me start off by saying that while it may be a good fit for others, this "as a service" model isn't for me and DRM isn't really my thing. After spending some time on Steam and familiarizing myself on how it works, I'd opt for GoG, all things being equal. However, the problem is that there are some titles I want to play that aren't on GoG, e.g., Elden Ring, Read Dead 2 (I'm just gonna keep playing this on my PS4 or wait for the PS5 Pro rather than having to use that Rockstart launch thing), God of War.

I did notice that Steam has an offline mode, which works. Though, as mentioned earlier, you have to ensure the game is fully updated. Not sure why, though. I mean, if I'm playing offline, what's it to them whether I update my game or not?

Though, I must admit I like Steam's refund policy, especially when a game turns out the exact opposite of what one was expecting or if it just doesn't work. For instance, refunded the games that I noticed were for the same price on GoG.

*Edited*

Been perusing GOG, and they don't seem to carry some of the newer games. Are the AAAs, more or less, boycotting them?

RE: Denuvo - I've been away from gaming so long that I'm not even up to speed on this outfit. Now that I am, it goes without saying that I'll avoid any game with them attached to it, the same way I turn off anti-virus, Malwarebytes whatever and else that "may" hamper performance. Not that I care what anyone else does but I'm from an era where this stuff just ain't gonna fly. Frankly, if Steam didn't have an "offline" mode, I'd return every game I had bought during the past week.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Been perusing GOG, and they don't seem to carry some of the newer games. Are the AAAs, more or less, boycotting them?

GoG has some policies regarding what you can and can't publish there. You'll get the option to download offline installers that have no copy protection on them whatsoever. It's pretty interesting that companies that publish there haven't seen their business model collapse from rampant piracy. Regardless, many publishers won't touch GoG with a ten-foot pole out of fear of death-by-piracy.

You'll have to examine each title on GoG carefully to see if there's anything in their games you don't like. Some of these games do phone home despite not having any copy protection (in fact, a lot of Unity games do this by default). Some of them lose multiplayer functionality. You obviously won't have access to thinks like the Steam Workshop for mods.

 

[MoragaBlue]

It's pretty interesting that companies that publish there haven't seen their business model collapse from rampant piracy. Regardless, many publishers won't touch GoG with a ten-foot pole out of fear of death-by-piracy.

Thanks for the heads up. Appreciate it.

Back during my teenage years, I recall passing around copies of popular games were relatively common during the late 90s. Though, if I recall, we had to buy a copy of Starcraft and Diablo to play on battle.net. I didn't think much of it at the time, but I think most of us just did it because, well, we didn't have much money in high school. Now, so many years later, I couldn't careless and just buy them.

However, I'm not going to if they start implementing all these restrictions. Piracy or the perception of it is their problem and has nothing to do with me--couldn't care less how they handle it but don't inconvenience me. Once they start doing that, I'm not going to go along with it. Case in point, Steam is having a huge sale on the Assassin's Creed series, and I'd probably have bought some or all of them had it not been for the Denuvo & using another app warnings.

You'll have to examine each title on GoG carefully to see if there's anything in their games you don't like. Some of these games do phone home despite not having any copy protection (in fact, a lot of Unity games do this by default). Some of them lose multiplayer functionality. You obviously won't have access to thinks like the Steam Workshop for mods.

From a force of habit, unless I'm multi-playing, which I'm not really into these days (had my fill during a misspent youth on Starcraft, Quake & Unreal), I always block not only games but any app that I don't need to access the net via my firewall.

Even on Win 11 when I installed it, I did so with a local account rather than having to do so with a Microsoft account. Again, to each his own, but I'm from a generation where stuff like this just doesn't fly, and never will.